What Cardio Is Best? How Should You Pace In The Heat? & MORE

Garage Gym Athlete
What Cardio Is Best? How Should You Pace In The Heat? & MORE

Hey, Athletes! Interrupted Sitting For Your Health  Episode of The Garage Gym Athlete Podcast is up! 


  • Jerred and Joe talk zone 2 and pacing
  • The guys give an update on what's going on in their lives and Garmins
  • They go through questions from the community!
  • They dive into anecdotal theories for doing zone 2 and pacing
  • And A LOT MORE!!

Diving Deeper…

If you want to go a little bit deeper on this episode, here is a link to the study for you: 

    • No study

Garage Gym Athlete Workout of the Week 

Don't forget to watch today's podcast!

What Cardio Is Best? How Should You Pace In The Heat? & MORE

Thanks for listening to the podcast, and if you have any questions be sure to add it to the comments below!

To becoming better!

- Jerred

Podcast Transcript


Jerred: [00:00:00] This is the Garage Gym Athlete Podcast and we're here to build autonomous athletes and put phenomenal programming into every garage, basement, and spare bedroom out there. I'm Jared Moon and I'm with Jill Courtney. We are strength and conditioning coaches who have turned over 20, 000 people into Garage Gym Athletes over the last decade and we're here to reduce the information overload that exists in the health and fitness industry today.

We're going to do that by covering relevant science and give actionable takeaways, not only from the data, but from our years of experience. So let's dive in.

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the garage gym athlete podcast. Jared Moon here with Joe Courtney. And today we'll be talking about a lot of different things. Zone two. We've been talking about zone two for years. Uh, but we, and it's actually gained a ton of popularity too, but we're going to be talking a little bit more about zone two.

We had some questions pop up in the community. Um, and I kind of want to talk about [00:01:00] some theoretical stuff. My thoughts on zone two that aren't necessarily, uh, based in science, but just my general, general belief in my ideas on programming. So we're going to get into that stuff today. If you stick around for.

The entirety of the episode before we do, I just want to check in, see how you're doing, Joe. How's, how's training? How's life? I heard you quit fitness and all you do is golf. Now. Is that...

Joe: pretty much, I mean, I walk, it's, it's just walking and getting sunshine and swinging a club and my heart rate, because anything else, yeah, my heart rate still gets up because I get really, really frustrated because I suck at golf. So it's like, you know, there's still ups and downs.

Jerred: Yeah, that's golf, man. I've never been able to get into it that that much have played several times. But, uh, and also we're kidding. Just still works out from what I see. What I saw this morning on the old Instagram was that heart rate up in the 170s.

That's a lot. What was that about?

Joe: I haven't had that read [00:02:00] for a long time.

Jerred: I was about to say, I didn't know you could get

your heart rate that high.

Joe: So, yeah, I, I think, well, Garmin keeps changing up my zones. It seems like every time I do like a higher intensity run. However, it's still like one 70. I've hit that this week and I think I hit it last week.

Sometimes those longer intervals. Um, I've, I've been able to, to hit those a bit more, but my, my red starts at least on Garmin at like 1 62. Um, so it's not like, not all that high because my max heart rate's not. Um, as high as some others would be, uh, because my heart is just a lot lower. Um, yeah, I was doing the five minute intervals from hard to kill.

So I was really pushing on those. But even so, like. On the third one, I was hitting that zone for according to Garmin. And I still felt pretty decent. Like I still kept that pace for that one. And then the next couple of intervals I was in, I was in that the almost the entire time. So it did some threshold adjustment after the workout.

Um, I don't know what that's going to amount to. I kind of just like our newest thing.

Jerred: I [00:03:00] think there's been some sort of update with. With Garmin and it's kind of frustrating me because I've noticed that my my zones have changed without me Like when it asks at the end, it's like do you want to adjust your max heart rate?

I'm like no don't touch anything like I have these exactly where I'm at, but it adjusted it anyway So now it brought my zone to down lower and then I went in and I feel like I can't manually adjust it how I used to be able to like it Really want you to base it off of a percent or whatever. You can't just say are my zone two numbers because we did that like blood testing zone two.

So I'm a little bit frustrated with it. So I, uh, I haven't dove into it that much. I really feel like it's the last like week I noticed that they changed this. And so, uh, and I just realized I could not easily change it back. I'm sure I'll figure out how to, um, eventually.

Joe: Yeah, I've kind of ignored it because I know when I do zone two, I'm going to get up into the green, their green color, because it's, that's the one forties ish to me, the mid tie one for yourselves, like, okay, whatever, that's fine.

I'll just stay in those. And if I get into yellow, then I know I need to, I need to back off because I know I'm in the one fifties at that point. But speaking of like a new update, something that happened [00:04:00] today, when I went for my run, never happened. So I've had Garmin for five or six years now, two different ones.

And today on my run, for some reason. It started talking to me. So like normally, so like I did like a quick intervals, structured intervals on my watch, which I've done a ton of times. Whenever I do my quarter mile repeats, I do those or anything that's like just the same repeat. So I did that for my five minute intervals today.

And I started and it said, okay, starting warm up, blah, blah, blah, whatever. And then I finished my warm and said, okay, warm up. Done time this now run for five minutes. I mean, we did this every interval. He would say like what I just did and what I'm about to do. Never done that before. I don't know how the voice command got turned on.

I don't mind it right now so much, but I feel like I've been doing that for a while. Um,

Jerred: really? But it did it. I mean, so I have the epics pro. I think it, I think with the epics pro, it came with that feature maybe. And uh, because I, I was running intervals this week too, [00:05:00] from hard to kill track. And yeah, it's like, uh, you know, it's the off and on intervals and it would be like rest, you know, whatever, blah, blah, blah.

And then it's like recovery complete, you know, all these kinds of things. And so I kind of like it. Uh, it's, it's annoying for shorter intervals because it can take, it can take the voice, like. 10 seconds to say everything and it's only if it's like a 30 second interval. You're like, I'm about done with this, Dan, that you're just talking.

It's talking the whole time. It's telling you it's about over. It's telling you it's over. It's telling you to begin. So yeah, it's kind of funny with shorter intervals.

Joe: It must be that, because usually what happens, so I think your Epyx Pro is a generation newer than mine. I just have the regular 7, not the 7 Pro.

And then usually, when a new generation comes out, they'll have a big software update, and then they slowly roll those out to the older generation, so that they catch up for whatever things that they can do. So I think I just updated it last week, or I might have remembered an update. So I think that's probably it.

But it was just interesting. Didn't I don't know how I would turn it off, but [00:06:00] I'll I'm fine with it for now.

Jerred: Yeah, it's a cool feature, but, uh, it's a training is good. Otherwise you're good to go.

Joe: Yep. But, uh, that's travel again, but I've been really, I started doing the Murph burner this week. I really wanted to start.

Um, I feel like I've been neglecting my legs some, like a little bit of, I just want that like strength, endurance, sores of burn, almost hypertrophy. So, uh, my legs have been pretty sore this week, but that's, you know, that's, that was kind of the name of the game with Murph Burner. And then I did the, uh, running intervals today.

So sort of a, sort of a mashup hybrid of what, um, between two things. Good week.

Jerred: Between two ferns right there. That's what you're doing. That's what it is. For me, uh, training's been good. I'm not, I don't have a lot to update. Been doing the hard to kill track. I do travel next week. So I'll be, I'll be figuring out what to do, uh, on that, that we could travel.

But, um, Just a funny story. Speaking of intervals, I, I kind of restarted on the intervals at the, at the beginning of the hard to kill track this past week, [00:07:00] uh, just cause they were getting so out of whack. I think I kind of talked about that last time I wanted to just kind of start fresh. And so that was the 32nd interval, 30, 30 intervals of 30, 30.

So 30 seconds on 30 seconds off with a warmup and a, and a cool down. And what was really funny is I, where I run now is I have like this back country road that like, I barely see a car. I rarely see a human and I love it. It's just a great road to run on because it's relatively safe. Not a lot going on out there, but there are these two roads that lead to it, to this road.

There's like one that way, one this way. And it's kind of like a T intersection. And then you can take a right or left on this road and you can run for a long time. And what was super awkward is I, it takes me about my warmup, like a 10 minute run to get to the road and then I can run on this road. This woman, who's a runner.

In myself, both get on the road and go the same direction at the same [00:08:00] time. So, she comes from the other side of the T intersection, I come, and we both She takes a left, I take a right. Then we're basically like running together. And I was like, seriously? Like, have you seen, uh, White Castle? Uh, or Harold and Kumar go to White Castle?

I was like,

Joe: I've seen I have seen A White Castle, and I have seen the movie. Yeah, well

Jerred: you know like, when he's like, he goes to like, pee in the forest. And And like a guy, a random guy shows up next to me, he's like, what the hell? Like there, there's anywhere it's like, it's like, what, this is your bush. You know?

Anyway, it's, it's a really funny scene. That's how I felt. I was like, seriously, like you could have ran the other direction. I guess I could have ran the other direction, but now we're running together. Um, but what was really funny was the same side of the road, opposite sides of the road. Same side is almost like we're running together.

She seemed like she was a very good runner too. It wasn't like she seemed very, I think maybe she wanted maybe the competition. Um, so, but I'm about to run intervals. I have like one minute left in my like zone to warm up before I'm running intervals, [00:09:00] but I do get a decent amount ahead of her. Um, and then I immediately go to.

Like she's like right behind me, but my first interval is fast, right? It's like a 30 second sprint. And so she's right behind me. Like we're almost running together, but then I just take off. Like I just take off for 30 seconds. Fast talking like five minutes, five 30 minute mile pace. And then I stopped and I start walking.

And so this is how it goes for the next half hour. She would basically catch up to me and then I would run really fast and then she would basically catch up to me. Then I'd run really fast. I mean, I think she got that I was doing intervals and I wasn't screwing with her. Uh, but like. That was what happened.

She never caught me while I was walking because I'd run so fast in the 30 seconds, but she would almost catch up to me and then I'd sprint again. It was almost like I was a child who's like playing a game. Who's like, you can't catch me. You can't catch me, but it just don't get out of my sight. Yeah, it was just so hilarious.

It's so awkward, but I'm hoping that doesn't happen [00:10:00] again. That was my my my training story of the week.

Joe: I've had that experience so many times because I always try and run the roads and usually, you know, You're a lot less populated than I am, so there's other runners around in wherever we've ran before, but there's so many times where I am running intervals and I catch up to somebody and then they pass me and then I have to run past them like really, really fast and then I stop and then they pass me.

And it's like, I don't want them like you don't know what you're

Jerred: doing. Like, you know, it's because if you were just like going on ego and competition and you're like, I've done this on a bike before. I used to do this when I'd ride my bike. Like I'd be on the road and I'd see somebody else biking and I'd be like, Screw the training program.

I'm passing this person and then I will stay ahead of them. Like I've done that, but that's, I don't, I'm not doing that on these runs. I'm just like trying to run what's programmed and, uh, it ends up being really funny,

Joe: but. Yeah, there are times where I'm like, you know, I'm just gonna go a little farther, a little bit extra or a random turn because I just kind of want to want to stop this back and forth.

Jerred: Yeah, I'm not gonna lie. I probably ran a little bit [00:11:00] faster on my 30 seconds on because I didn't want her to catch me. So she, she probably pushed me to some degree.

Joe: Um, and you also stare really hard at your watch, like for twice as, at least twice as much as you would normally. Cause you're like, you want them to know that you're, you're paying attention to your watch and you are doing an actual interval.

You're not just messing around. She had to have figured it out by interval

Jerred: 17 or whatever, for sure. Okay, let's talk about Zone 2. We had a question in the community. That's what I want to start with. Let me just pull it up, uh, real quick. So this was from Jeffrey Smith, uh, and he was talking about Zone 2 apparatus differences.

And he said, there's been a lot of Zone 2 talk in the fitness world the last few years. I heard something the other day that struck me. It was when training for say, a marathon, zone 2 work on a bike isn't the same as running. Does that make sense? To me it seems zone 2 is zone 2 no matter the apparatus.

Running zone 2 may help [00:12:00] for the marathon aspect, i. e. being on your feet for that long. But I assume zone to work on a rower or bike or running or swimming or whatever has the same general benefits regardless. Am I wrong? So that's a great, uh, great question. I can kind of jump into some of the science of this, or I would say the, the more physiological aspects.

Did you have anything that you wanted to say on, on this specific one? Or do you want me to take it from the top?

Joe: Uh, yeah, I'll just say like, just. He was just, he was mostly referring to specifically the cardio benefits. Obviously, if you need to get better at a marathon, you're going to run. If you need to get better at a specific thing, you're going to do that.

You know, with the, the, the 92 year old man, world record holder, he, Road at zone two for most of his training. He actually wrote, he didn't do something else for his own too. So, um, if you have actually are training for something, I want to get better at something, then do that. But for overall, um, we can get more, more into, I'll let you go.[00:13:00]

Jerred: Yeah. And a hundred percent. That's true. If you're training for something specific, don't, don't rely or expect any crossover between different cardiovascular monostructural activities. Like if, yeah, if you need to run a marathon, you run, if you need to do a cycling race, you cycle. You don't. You don't supplement like if you did need to supplement is because you're injured and you can't handle the volume.

Um, like I did that some training for the ultra marathon. I had some like injuries flare up, but I wanted to keep my, my lungs in the cardiovascular side of things. Right. So I would hop on the ski or I'd hop on the bike, but just, just like the minimal effective dose that I need to, to try and stay in shape.

But I do think Jeffrey here is talking more about the other benefits of zone two, which is just, uh, Widening that aerobic base and, uh, you know, being healthy and longevity and all those things that are associated with zone two. So here's the difference that I want to point out first. And we, when we did this, the zone two episode, uh, we kind [00:14:00] of, Got into the weeds about finding our, our zone two by testing our blood.

And the short of that, you can go listen to that episode if you want to, but ultimately what you're trying to do is keep your blood lactate below two millimole. And that is the, the, the indicator, the marker that you're in zone two proper. not necessarily just a heart rate. These heart rates do correlate.

Obviously what we found, and I kind of mentioned the beginning of the podcast was that my higher, I could go a little bit harder. I think we all found that like my proper zone two, just if we went off the percentages based off my max heart rate, it would say my upper limit zone two is like 148, 149. But what we found when we tested blood lactate with running, Uh, it was more like, I think I could get to like 154, 155 or something like that and still be zone two.

So it's not like it's massive difference, but it's my blood lactate wasn't surpassing this other level. [00:15:00] Now, what you have to know about blood lactate is it is a by product of basically your muscles being used. And so my, um, my takeaway here of, of how this could apply to modalities is if you do zone two on an Airdyne.

We have leg involvement. We have arm involvement. If you have it on a rower, same thing. It's full body, a bike it's, it's, uh, predominantly legs. Right. And I think all of these other apparatuses are different than running. I feel like running while your muscles are pounding the pavement, I, there's not as much muscle involvement as say, like rowing.

or bike. Um, your, your legs are just used so much more. So what, what I would, uh, assume happens and what I, I have not tested blood lactate on different modalities, but I know athletes who have, who, who have confirmed this, like your blood lactate will be different [00:16:00] on a bike. Also, if you haven't trained that much on a bike, then it would be running.

So it kind of depends on what your body's become more efficient at, but it's also dependent on how much muscular involvement is being used. So again, if we're, if we're rowing, we're using our arms, we're using our back, we're using our legs, we're using a little bit of everything. I might be, my blood lactate might be higher at a lower heart rate.

And so that does change my zone to a little bit. So that was one thing I wanted to hit on. I don't know how much, how massive these differences would be, but ultimately is, yeah, it's going to be a little bit different, um, depending on the apparatus and depending on how much the muscles are involved. Um, but

Joe: whenever we get a chance again, we, we got to do the, uh, break out the, the lactate meter again and try it on bikes.

Jerred: I mean, I want to try it in so many different ways. Um, and that, that's one of the things I do want to talk about. But to his point of like zone two is zone two. Does it really matter? I don't think it matters that [00:17:00] much. And that's my, like the honest truth I have. Cause think about it. We went through all this, like.

Testing and you know, um, I will playing with his blood lactate meter, trying to get it right, like did an hour's worth of a test to figure it out. I mean, it's not that big of a deal, but it's a, it's a lot of hoops to jump through and ultimately what did I find? It's like a five or six. Beat per minute difference than like what my Garmin just estimated.

And it's not that crazy, right? And so I have a feeling that that's going to be the case for almost any of these things. So I do agree with his like overall ideas, like zone two zone two, right? Yeah, I really, I think it is. Um, I think, I think as long as you're not trying to get the upper limit threshold of zone two.

Um, and because that that's the only real reason you'd want to test is like you would want to be sandbagging it like that's the reason I tested because I was training for an ultra marathon and I wanted to, I kind of wanted to toe that upper end of zone [00:18:00] two so I could hold faster paces but still be in zone two.

But if you're just training for life in general, I don't think it matters that much. Just don't try to be at that upper limit threshold to where your blood lactate probably is spilling over and just like an indicator of this without having to do any blood lactate test. If you are saying like, Hey, I'm going to hop on the rower and I'm going to do, or I'm going to hop on the bike and I'm going to do zone two.

If your legs are burning, burning is an indicator of lactate production. And so you're probably starting to spill over that, that blood lactate is probably starting to spill over past two millimole. Again, that's not scientific. That's just like, if we're going by feel, if you're feeling some burning in the legs.

You probably need to take it back because you're producing a little bit too much blood lactate. Zone two needs to be that conversational pace, not over overly, um, you know, muscle burn related. And so anyway, I think if you're just trying to get zone two benefits, boom, that's it. Like stay, stay in that zone two heart rate.

It doesn't really matter, you know, uh, where you're at. So yes, zone two can be [00:19:00] different for apparatus, but I think that Not you, Jeffrey, but like, I think all these people who are like big proponents of this, like Peter T and everything. I mean, Peter Mattia, Peter Attia is like maniacal about this stuff, like almost to like an annoying degree.

That's like overkill. If you, I've listened to some of his zone two stuff, like, and I think that's one of his like traits that makes him a phenomenal doctor is like his attention to detail and all this other stuff. But like how far he goes into the weeds with some of this other crap, I'm like, I don't I think you're, I think you're taking it too far.

Like in all honesty, it does not matter. Like you're not going to get 18 years of extra life because you were at the perfect millimole of lactate. You know what I'm saying? Like that's not going to matter. Like it's really not going to matter. Like if you're doing a lot of exercise, you're widening that aerobic base, you're getting the longevity benefits.

It's not going to be that big of a deal. If you're at like I was at 147 instead of 152 for this heart, like you're going to be fine. You're going to get all the benefits. So I think you [00:20:00] can rest easy in that knowing you're, you're going to be fine.

Joe: Yeah. And most of the studies that we've ever seen of, you know, going back to the 92 year old rower or all these other ones, no matter what the apparatus was, the training volume, it was still like 70 percent of the training was zone two.

So that, that proportion still stayed the same, no matter what sort of training people have done. Yeah. For whatever benefits they're going for. So just if you just still keep that applied, as long as you're not, you know, training for something specific,

Jerred: I think that should be everyone's biggest takeaway with zone two is just that it needs to be in your training and it needs to be a majority, right?

Like that's it. Like it does. I don't think we need to get much further than the weeds on the exact heart rate or blood lactate or anything. It's just, I think what's happened in the past is people go too hard too often. And they're wondering why they're not seeing results specifically in running. Like if you don't really know what you're doing running, it's like you go for a five mile run because that sounds good.

Right. And your heart rates at zone for the whole time. And then you're wondering why you're not seeing any progress, right? These are, this is where zone two becomes helpful for people who [00:21:00] don't really know what they're doing. But if you're doing a couple of zone two runs per week and a couple of interval runs, and you're trying to get better running, you'll get better just doing those things.

And so I think that's, that's what people need to know. And that's biggest takeaway for people. I'd want for people is just like, no, that needs to be in your training, uh, to improve, uh, your VO two max and everything else. Uh, another we just kind of want to hit on some other topics. Um, one was zone two in the heat, which I feel like I've talked about.

But like, what do you do when it gets hot because it gets really hot here in texas and that if I'm running outside, that changes my zone to significantly like, in all honesty, it could make me walk at a very slow pace. If I go outside in the middle of the day when it's 1 14, like my heart rate might just be in zone two chilling outside.

So, um, What's your take? What do you do, Joe, when it gets hot and try and stay inside too? Do you pay attention to it or you just kind of do your own thing?

Joe: I guess I'll pay attention to it. I remember in Bahrain, my threshold there, I think, was 110 and I stopped running outside. [00:22:00] Um, when it was, when it was that phase of the summer.

Um, so, and I was sticking to, you know, My my zones and I did. That's what I just started walking. It was like an aggressive two or three weeks and my pacing went at least a minute or more slower. So if I had to walk, I had to walk because I wanted to stay within within that threshold. I still stick to my zones.

Even if I could do more.

Jerred: Yeah, I mean, big thing for me, um, I just found it really annoying. So I just wouldn't run in the middle of the day if it's the middle of summer. I do try and do early morning runs if I'm running that way. It's still a factor because it's still warm here, even first thing in the morning.

Uh, but you can play with a little bit more. But one thing I always like for people to know, and this is like a big takeaway I had doing, um, Murph every week for multiple years is like, I'd always do it outside. I'd always do it when it was really hot. Yeah. And my times would always start to suck in the summer.

And it was something I was really paying attention to, right? We're like Murph times. I'm trying to get them better. And if [00:23:00] let's just say I started Murph in January. It would be like this bell curve on time. So it's like, Oh, they're pretty decent times. And then the times go up in the summer and then they come back down in the winter.

And it's just because of the heat. But what's crazy is it's not like a true bell curve. It's more like straight line. And then it shoots up to the curve, but then it, the times dropped significantly post summer. So you're still getting a lot of benefit training in the heat. Maybe even beyond, um. You know what the zone two would be.

And so once it cools off, you'll realize, Hey, you were still building a lot of capacity. You just didn't realize it because of the heat. And then once it cools down, your times will dramatically decrease and running or whatever you're trying to improve at. Um, so I ultimate takeaway for what do you do in the heat, try and run when it's not like blazing hot outside, um, in the summer, uh, and pay attention to it to some degree, but I do think that you should try and stick within your zones, kind of like you're talking about Joe to, to the best of your ability.

[00:24:00] Um, now the. Two other things I want to hit on was kind of going back to Jeffrey's question is like zone two zone two, doesn't matter. This is what I want to find out. Um, so if you've been following the hard to kill track, we've been doing 42 minute EMOMs. Um, and so it's a minute of a minute, a minute, a minute, a minute.

So four minutes of basically doing something, then you rest, right? The remainder, how an EMOM works, but then we have two minutes of rest, minute five and six are rest. And so you're doing seven rounds of these. The goal during these 42 minute emoms is to stay in zone 2 or as close to zone 2 as possible.

Um, and my, what I want to know is what we're doing. Okay. So like, I just did one of these today. So it's like fresh on my, fresh on my mind. So, What what I do is like I I play around with the reps a lot and I talked about this on one of the podcast is making sure people are able to do the 42 minute moms.

But [00:25:00] like I might start with way more reps than is actually prescribed in the first set because I'm trying to get his own two pretty fast. And then what might happen during minute five and six, which are technically rest minutes, I might be walking or even jogging depending on where my heart rate it like this morning.

Um, yeah, My heart rate was not getting into zone two. It was either a heart rate monitor thing, or it was just like, you know, morning, my, my, my body wasn't waking up or whatever, but like, I did the first round all the way through. And I was in the rest periods and my heart rate was at like 98 and I was like, no, like we gotta, we gotta get going.

So the next round, I really kicked it up. I like doubled the reps on everything. I ran way faster. One of the EMOM things was like to run a hundred, 200 meters. So I ran really hard during that timeframe. And then it finally, it got into zone two. And then what I was doing minute five and six, almost every single time was either a very light jog or a fast walk to keep my heart rate in zone two.

So after, after round one, around two, playing [00:26:00] around with it. Um, so like the rest of the like 36 minutes or something like that, I was in zone two that entire time. Like I didn't come, I didn't go above it. I didn't go below it. I stayed in zone two that entire time with doing work, doing a little bit of rest, doing more work, walking, jogging during the intervals.

And so my question is the same as Jeffrey's is like. Is this okay? Am I getting all the same benefits of zone two, even though I'm not like, who says, like, who wrote the rule for the human being that you have to, to benefit from aerobic base building, you have to run in a straight line, you have to bike in a straight line, you have to row.

You have to like, who said that that's the only way, only way to benefit from zone two. I think that's just the easiest way to get your heart rate out of a spot and keep it there. That's it. That's all that really, it's just convenient. But I think if we can master these emoms, these zone two emoms, and we really figure out, and that's what I've been getting a lot better at is like, how do I keep my heart rate?

Within this zone because I'm not having huge fluctuations in these emoms either after I kind of get it [00:27:00] dialed in It's not like oh it goes down to 120 and it goes up to 150 like I'm generally keeping it like 140 145 like in that range for the full emom and so my my question is basically the same that I don't fully know, but that's one of the next thing I want to test with a blood lactate meter, because that'll kind of be some of the proof there and then just doing it for a long period of time.

Like if I do 60 minute EMOMs, 45 minute EMOMs, and I just do those, that's my only form of zone two training. Will I get a lot fitter in the process? My theory is yes, because like, I don't. There's no, uh, human handbook that you're issued that said, yeah, this is the only way to improve your aerobic base at you have to run a straight line for 60 to 90 minutes to do it.

So anyway, that's one thing that I'm really looking to find out over the next few years. And honestly, I want to really learn how that works because the reason I want to do it, we've talked about blood sugar and everything else. Like I, I think there's a huge benefit to dumping your glycogen [00:28:00] stores with These emo workouts.

So like I'm doing all these things like that either involve a barbell or a kettlebell, they're, they're lifting their, their muscular involvement. So I'm dumping all this glycogen, but I'm also staying in zone two, which doesn't normally happen as much. Like that's what I found with running when I'd run zone two.

Um, It had very minimal effect on my blood sugar. But when I when I'm doing weight bearing stuff, load bearing stuff, it helps my blood sugar quite a bit, stay regulated throughout the entire day. So that's something that I'm looking to find out and want to research a lot more.

Joe: Yeah, you're gonna have to really record like meticulously all of all of what you've done and data and stuff because, you know, as you're saying before, different exercise that you do might have an effect on what your blood lactate is.

And so really honing that or, um, Picking up picking the best exercises or how to email you. Maybe it's not an email. Maybe you just do. You know, get on the bike for a while and then get off, do some calisthenics and get back on the bike and see if that can, [00:29:00] you know, something to that degree. I'm definitely interested in it a lot because I think I had the pendulum swing of doing too much zone two.

And I also forget that like a lot of times with some of the lifting, some of the circus things that we do is that we're in zone two a lot during normal workouts, not doing um, single modality, something so, uh, and I, and I, I've been getting into money to do much more faster intervals and more on the high intensity end because I was lacking the upper end, but my lower end of zone two, I was getting plenty of because I would go on these weekly long zone two runs.

And then I would have the regular training that I was probably in zone to a good bit for as well. So if we can combine, you know, some of that lifting. With zone two, then that leaves more room for okay, let's just go balls out to some of these other intervals as well.

Jerred: Yeah, it's like zone two. Um, I don't know which example to go with.

Maybe I'll just use both. Um, did you know a squirrel, like if [00:30:00] you find their like dinner or whatever, they normally have like two or three years worth of food. Have you ever heard that? So like, you know, squirrels are just like high anxiety, looking for food all day, every day, squirreling it away, right?

Like that's how we, how we got that term. They're just hiding, hiding all the nuts that they find over and over again, all their food. Um, but I think, And I don't know if this is a true fact, but what I what I've heard is that squirrels have, yeah, on average, like two to three years worth of food in their den.

It's like you guys, you're going to be fine. You know what I mean? Um, and that's how I feel with zone two. Um, and I talked to Zach bitter about this. It's like zone two is like collecting those, Those nuts throughout the year over and over again. But if you never eat them, it's, it's like an unnecessary, you're, you're, what you're doing is unnecessary.

And so how does that translate to, to what we're talking about? Well, it's like zone two, you can do all this zone two, but what it's doing is it's prepping [00:31:00] the groundwork for the upper end training. If you never do the upper end training, With enough intensity or enough volume or doing it consistently, the zone two training you're doing is kind of a waste, not truly a waste.

Like you're still exercising. You're still sweating. You're still getting a benefit, but it's like, you're just building this massive base, but you're never going up on the pyramid. You're never getting the higher intensity. So. You're not going to increase your VO two max by only doing zone two. But what you could do is like, say yours, say your VO two max is 45 right now.

And so then you do all this zone two. And so what you've done is you've increased, now you have a base with a potential VO two max to go to 50, but you're going to have to do the harder training for that to happen. It's like I've done so, so much zone two, I've increased my base enough to have a VO two max of 50.

But I haven't done enough top end training. You have to do the top end training to actually go from that 45 to 50. Like we're doing all the zone to just stretches your [00:32:00] potential, your, your possibility from 45 to 50, but to actually get to the 50, you have to do the hard stuff. And so that's, uh, one of the things I've seen biggest issues overall with this popularity of zone two, it has gotten so popular.

And most people don't have near enough time to do what people are recommending on the internet. People are like, yeah, you need to be doing four hours of zone two a week. I'm like, You're not like you're not speaking to real humans. Like I've been working with people, um, athletes for over a decade. Now, anyone saying you need at least four hours of zone two has never worked with an athlete.

Like they're working with professional athletes. If they're saying casual

Joe: athletes,

Jerred: yeah, it is. It doesn't make any sense. It doesn't make any sense. Like what they're, when they're saying you need four hours of zone two, it's like, it's, it's hard to get a human being to exercise four hours per week, period.

Like period. And you're saying it all needs to be zone two. And so people hear stuff like that who are regular exercisers, they think they need to be doing all this zone two. And now they're like, they're doing 90, [00:33:00] 95 percent of their training in zone two. And they're like, well, I don't actually have time for this other stuff, but I heard zone two so good for you.

It's like, ah, it's only really good for you if you're able to do the other things too. Um, so I don't think you also need as much, like, I just, I think that it's gotten a little bit like we've, we've gotten a little bit carried away with some of the zone two. So don't do too much zone two either. Like know what you're trying to get better at.

Like, I think if you just did exercise four or five days a week for the rest of your life and didn't pay attention to anything else, you're going to be fine. Like, okay, like you'll be fine. But if you wanted to like really improve, like that's, that's what I'm always trying to do. Like, I just want to see if I can improve my VO2 max.

I want to get better at things. So I'm trying to do training that matters training that leads me somewhere, but if that's not important to you, then just exercise consistently for the rest of your life. You're gonna be fine.

Joe: We need to create like a, uh, weekly or monthly athlete like scratch pad, like check black, almost like almost like how we program of like, Hey, you know, this blocks there's so many blocks of this, but have it be like, yeah.

You know, zone two and upper and like [00:34:00] a certain strength and like something, uh, speed or and whatnot, but it's core and like, so that on a month scale, you can see, okay, I did all this zone two. I did, but I didn't hit my, my upper end, my high intensity stuff. So I know I need to hit that. So like a one month scratch box.

Jerred: Well, or you could just follow garage gym, athlete programming, where I've already thought of all of that for you. And I've tried to program the appropriate amounts of intensity, strength, core work, you know, different planes of movement zone too. Um, and that's, that's really the balance that I'm trying to seek for everybody on the hard to kill track is being able to like, how can we balance all these things without going too far in any one direction I think is ultimately.

Ultimately, what I'm trying to achieve with with my programming. So we're getting close. I think that's about it for zone two. So I think if anybody else has any questions about this stuff, just know there are ways to execute it. Don't go overboard with it. Um, and, and pay attention to some [00:35:00] basic things. If you do want to get into the blood lactate stuff, we do have an episode on that and you could go to, um, The episode where we talk about zone two blood lactate testing.

We kind of talk about our pros video

Joe: on it, too

Jerred: Yeah, I think we have a youtube episode as well where we actually show you Uh our lessons learned with using a blood lactate meter for measuring zone two kind of what you want to pay attention to all That kind of stuff So if you're really interested in this stuff And kind of want to nerd out or geek out or find a very individualized zone two for you in a particular modality Go get it done.

Go, go try it out. Uh, with one of these, uh, blood lactate meters, we've got the resources for you. Cool. Well, that's it for this one for all of our athletes out there doing the training. Really appreciate you guys. And for anyone who wants to be a part of garage gym athlete, go to garagegymathlete. com sign up for a free trial.

We would love to have you, but that's it for this one. Remember if you don't kill comfort, comfort will kill [00:36:00] you.

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