The Real Reason Your Testosterone Levels are Plummeting Right Now (and what to do about it)

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Podcast Transcript

Jerred: [00:00:00] Welcome back to the Garage Gym Athlete Podcast. Today we're talking about [00:00:05] how testosterone levels are plummeting worldwide and how men [00:00:10] won't even be men in the next 10 years. Have you seen any, any headlines like that? Any of that, [00:00:15] like that crap on social media or wherever things are these days?

Dave: Yeah, I'm not even [00:00:20] on social media that much, and I, those things pop up all the time of like.

20 year olds have [00:00:25] 50% of testosterone as 60 year olds did in the 1960s. Like, be like your grandpa. And I'm [00:00:30] like, okay, maybe there's more to it, but it seems a little extreme.

Jerred: Yeah. Well, apparently the, [00:00:35] all of the headlines and uh, hooks and everything else out there pissed [00:00:40] off enough scientists to pull up a write.

Study an article [00:00:45] in, uh, let's see, clinical chemistry, volume 71, issue five, May, [00:00:50] 2025, and the journal article is reevaluating the threshold for low [00:00:55] testosterone. And so they wanted to look at it. This isn't necessarily a systematic review or [00:01:00] meta-analysis, which would be like a better way to actually look at these things, but they just kind of looked at the data to see [00:01:05] what kind of conclusions they could come up with.

So we're gonna kind of cover what they [00:01:10] saw. When it comes to testosterone and whether it actually is [00:01:15] plummeting in today's day and age. And then also we're gonna talk about how to increase [00:01:20] your testosterone and you know, things that you can do to make sure that you're taking the right steps. Because I did a [00:01:25] podcast not that long ago, I think it was, man time is being [00:01:30] really weird with me right now with how many times I've like moved and everything else.

But I think it was earlier in the year. How I keep my [00:01:35] testosterone above 800 at the age of 37. Yeah. 'cause I'm still 37, so that was this year. [00:01:40] Uh, so anyway, that, um. I have normally had pretty healthy [00:01:45] testosterone levels, and it's not by accident. It's very intentional because I think [00:01:50] testosterone's very important.

So I do everything I can from what the research says, basic lifestyle [00:01:55] guidelines, avoidance of certain things. I do everything I can to try and keep my testosterone levels as high as I possibly can, and those [00:02:00] might start to decline with age, but I'm still gonna fight back as long as I can without taking TRT to try and keep my [00:02:05] testosterone levels up there.

So anyway, let's talk about what this study. [00:02:10] This, it's an article, so we have to talk about this one differently. We can't be like, oh, well they had 47 participants and all this [00:02:15] other stuff. They, they basically had three points in the first one we can go over. I'll hit [00:02:20] some of the highlights, but they're basically saying we measure [00:02:25] differently now, and I'm not gonna get into the exact things of like, I don't even know how to.[00:02:30]

Like even pronounce some of these things, liquid chromatography, [00:02:35] tandem, mass spectrometry. Like, I'm not gonna sit here and pretend like I know what these things are. Right? [00:02:40] So what I do know is they measure things differently, and the analogy I'll give is [00:02:45] like if I, I was like, Hey Dave, let's measure our leg strength.

[00:02:50] And so we're like, okay. And we go and we test our back squats to measure our leg strength. And we do that for three [00:02:55] years. And then all of a sudden we're like, let's start doing leg press. And then I'm like. [00:03:00] Wow. You know, I'm, I'm way stronger, I guess is what it would be on leg press. My legs are so much stronger because [00:03:05] it's better than this squat number, right?

It's like, okay, well yes, we're measuring [00:03:10] leg strength, but different ways, right? And so we can't compare the back squat to the leg press. It [00:03:15] doesn't really make sense. That's essentially what happened. Would you agree from like what you read through this article? [00:03:20]

Dave: Yeah. And essentially more people are getting flagged with low ot.

Even though [00:03:25] there, there is, there was some data that it is decreasing, but not to the degree that, that people think [00:03:30] it is. So more, more men getting flagged with low T that wouldn't have with this, the different testing, [00:03:35] say 20 years ago.

Jerred: Yeah. And so from what I read, it was basically saying the older [00:03:40] method that it utilized, um, there are a lot of like errors that can, there can be artifacts in [00:03:45] what it.

Measured as testosterone's, not actually testosterone. And then the new method is very [00:03:50] specific. It's like highly specific. It's very good at measuring testosterone incredibly [00:03:55] accurately. And so it said in 2001, just to throw some, some numbers, 2001 to [00:04:00] 2004, they used the old method and the median testosterone levels were around 495 to 500.[00:04:05]

2011 to 2016, it dropped to the lower four hundreds, like between four [00:04:10] 18 and 4 33, or actually 4 0 9 and 4 33. And so what it said is it said it [00:04:15] created a statist statistical illusion with real world consequences. The percentage of healthy [00:04:20] men classified with low testosterone, which is below 300, nearly doubled, jumping from [00:04:25] 11 to 12% of people up to 18 to 22% [00:04:30] after the change in how they measured.

So. They said that if they, [00:04:35] if they made the adjustment based off of like the statistical analysis, [00:04:40] that it shouldn't be 300 as a cutoff, it should be 264. And if they did that, [00:04:45] then the modern test result would be back down to 11 to 14%. So big thing that they're [00:04:50] saying. Again, the reason I'm not gonna focus on it because I don't know, I'm not a, a [00:04:55] chemist, I'm not a doctor or like biologist.

Anything I don't know about like testing measures or like what you can [00:05:00] use or different ways to do it, but I, I understand the basic idea. They're saying, Hey. [00:05:05] We changed the way that we measure it and it's way more accurate. And so things are a little bit lower. They're saying that's one of the [00:05:10] big reasons we're seeing this, like dramatic difference in testosterone levels from more back in the day [00:05:15] to now.

And this isn't 1960 or whatever, like you mentioned, this is 2001 [00:05:20] to, uh, at the earliest, uh, to 2016. As, as the more recent [00:05:25] as what they, they were take looking at.

Dave: I think that's the importance [00:05:30] of, and we'll get a couple of other things, but checking something like knowing externally and [00:05:35] internally, and that's with why regular testing is important to be able to compare to yourself.

But it's [00:05:40] like if you get, and I say externally as in like comparing to a standard to a baseline to [00:05:45] what's classified as low. So it's like, okay, if you test at [00:05:50] 400, it's like, is that low? It's like it's on the lower end, but it's like, is that. It's [00:05:55] like how much of that is testing now, now versus like the new, uh, some of those changes that were made.

It's like, well, maybe [00:06:00] that's low, but why don't you get it checked again in three months after making some changes? And [00:06:05] if it's lower, like, okay, maybe those are, maybe you're doing something wrong, or like, but if it's going in the right [00:06:10] direction. And that's the importance of having internal testing, whether that's with something like blood work or [00:06:15] fitness or nutrition or any, any of the goals that you have.

Making sure that you're comparing that over time to [00:06:20] your own trend as well.

Jerred: Yeah. And I think that's the biggest thing. I even hit on that when I did that [00:06:25] testosterone podcast where I just kinda went over my numbers and things I've been doing intentionally, supplements I've been taking, [00:06:30] and if you get a low T result, time of day when you took the, the blood test matters [00:06:35] a whole lot.

Um, and then also just the fact that you need to get more than one blood [00:06:40] test because if I'm going to take action especi, especially from like a [00:06:45] pharmaceutical standpoint, if I'm like, I got a low T blood test, time to start TRT. [00:06:50] Let's get one more blood test. You know, [00:06:55] do as much as we can on the natural side of things and we'll talk about like some of the things that you can do.[00:07:00]

Try that out for six months. Get the second blood test after you make changes or get a second blood test right away. Just [00:07:05] see if it's any different. And if it's the same, then try six months of basic lifestyle stuff. Then if it's still not working, [00:07:10] sure go on TRT. I don't have big problems with that. I have big problems with, uh, people hopping on stuff.[00:07:15]

Um. Incorrectly. And that's basically what they're saying. They're like, a lot of people have been DI diagnosed with low [00:07:20] T when they don't actually have low T, and then there's pharmaceutical interventions that are [00:07:25] basically unnecessary. But you can't argue with the fact that some people just actually feel like crap.

Right. And so again, [00:07:30] going back to your basic lifestyle stuff, that would be my first approach and not. What drugs can I [00:07:35] take or, or inject or whatever. So they do say that that is not the full picture though. They're [00:07:40] not saying, Hey, there's a difference in measurements and that's the only problem. It doesn't matter.

They're, they're not [00:07:45] actually saying that. They're just saying that could account for some of it. They're saying that the, there [00:07:50] is an undeniable factor that lifestyle changes are a major part of this. And so when [00:07:55] we're comparing men across the decades. We have to, there's a major shift in lifestyle changes like [00:08:00] energy intake, macronutrient distribution, micronutrient adequacy, sleep habits, stress [00:08:05] management, physical activity, all of these things that ultimately do impact [00:08:10] your overall testosterone levels.

And I think that's a, a. In my opinion, probably the [00:08:15] biggest bang for your buck here is changing these things. But they are saying, yeah, we're, we're way more [00:08:20] stressed out than normal. I think that might be a huge part of it is like stress, [00:08:25] sleep, and physical activity. Um, what are your thoughts on like basic lifestyle guidelines when [00:08:30] it comes to testosterone levels?

Dave: I, I totally agree with that. I think when you say like, if [00:08:35] someone's feeling lousy and they're like, oh, I have symptoms of, of low t, it's like, what are, [00:08:40] what, what is causing that? Okay. I'm not sleeping well. I'm stressed, I'm not [00:08:45] taking care of my body. And those things, it's like, is it? And then people get this number checked and it's like, oh, is it this [00:08:50] low number and low testosterone that's doing that?

And like, what's, what's causing, what is a cycle? 'cause it's like, [00:08:55] okay, well if you got more, if you got more sleep, you started exercising [00:09:00] regularly, you manage your stress. Even if your testosterone number didn't change, like worst case you go get it rechecked. [00:09:05] It's the same. I almost guarantee you. 99.9%, like you're gonna be [00:09:10] feeling better if you're getting more sleep and taking care of yourself more.

And then maybe the symptoms of [00:09:15] low T that you think are caused by just low testosterone floating around your system could be resolved just [00:09:20] by, by basic lifestyle things. And I dunno what your thoughts are on that, but it's like the, the worst case is you're, you're gonna [00:09:25] be feeling better probably, regardless.

Jerred: Well, and I think it's funny, man, because I've talked about [00:09:30] Ozempic and TRT and those kind of things, and what's funny is now they're coming out. [00:09:35] Just to like go off a quick tangent on like Ozempic or, you know, I think that's the official brand [00:09:40] name, but, uh, you know, tho those weight loss drugs, they are really effective.

But [00:09:45] they came out with guidelines on like. If you lose weight on Ozempic, what do you need to do [00:09:50] to like maintain that weight loss and like, what, what should happen? And I think it's hilarious because it's like, [00:09:55] oh, well you need to, you need to make sure that you're sleeping. Your diet needs to be doing this.

You need to be doing [00:10:00] resistance training and cardiovascular training this many times per week. They just basically gave you what you should have been doing [00:10:05] in the first place that most of the people couldn't stick to. Right. Um, and I'm not, I'm not trying to throw shade. [00:10:10] It's just like, okay, if Ozempic turned you into this new person, and then they're saying in [00:10:15] order for it to stick and to actually be effective long term, no bone loss, like all these other things you [00:10:20] need to do, all the things that you should have been doing in the first place.

And it's like, okay, that's, and I feel the [00:10:25] same way about TRT and where I don't think we understand yet, because the usage of TRT is [00:10:30] so crazy right now across age groups, across everyone. Is if we don't fix [00:10:35] these basic things first. Like if, if you're incredibly stressed all the time, your [00:10:40] diet is horrible, you don't sleep, you, your macronutrient, micronutrient profiles [00:10:45] suck.

And then your, your, your tea is actually low, and then you take TRT bring the levels [00:10:50] up. Where does all of that show up now? Because it's not like, it's like [00:10:55] you're allowed to do those things if your tea level's fine. Because if all of those things remain true, and that's where I don't [00:11:00] think that we're at the very forefront of figuring out what happens in 10 years [00:11:05] when people are like, you know what, it's like the energy drink thing.

If, if I'm really tired every single day and I'm just [00:11:10] like pounding energy drinks every day, it, that might be fine. For a week I'm gonna feel like super energetic or [00:11:15] whatever. But what happens when I have five energy drinks every single day for five years? I don't know what happens. [00:11:20] It's, it's kind of like.

The oil in my car is low. I'm gonna keep going 70 miles per hour [00:11:25] and I'm gonna reach my hand out the front and try and put oil in the engine while we're still going 70 miles per hour. [00:11:30] Who cares that there's a leak out the bottom? Like let's just, I just gotta keep filling oil oil in the [00:11:35] top. And so that's where I'm like, that's why I'm always pushed back against these things 'cause we don't have answers to these questions.

[00:11:40] But if you clear up all the lifestyle side of these things and then you take TRT, that's where I'm like, [00:11:45] that's fine. Like go for it. You know? Just don't cheat. Your body, [00:11:50] don't cheat your biology and think that it's okay to continue all these [00:11:55] bad lifestyle habits and then just get an injection, you know, on a weekly basis and think that [00:12:00] that everything's gonna be okay.

'cause it's not, I guarantee it's not. It's gonna pop up somewhere else in your life. So [00:12:05] yeah, we have people's body fat percentages are too high. Physical activity [00:12:10] levels are too low. People, I don't think people smoke all that much, but that's a major one. [00:12:15] I think smoking has probably actually decreased, and actually alcohol use has decreased.

But smoking and alcohol are big [00:12:20] contributors. Um, a lot of people taking medications. I think most, most people are on some type of medication these [00:12:25] days. Sleep habits are horrible. Stress habits are horrible. People are on their phones too much. Uh, there's a lot of research [00:12:30] coming out that things like short form content actually cause a lot of stress, anxiety, and depression is becoming [00:12:35] scientifically proven now.

Everyone's on their phone five, six, seven, eight hours a day now. So we're just like [00:12:40] this Molotov cocktail of like, crap that's just like, uh, you know. Lit on fire and [00:12:45] just like making everything way, way worse. And so you need to do all the [00:12:50] opposite of those things. So if you wanted to lay out at least two big things someone could [00:12:55] do, Dave, with their basic lifestyle guidelines, what do you think are the two firsts that you would wanna [00:13:00] tackle with somebody?

They come into you and they're doing all those things wrong. Let's say they're not smoking or drinking as much, but like [00:13:05] they're not sleeping well. Their diet sucks, they're not training. Like what's your order of operations there? If [00:13:10] we're trying to. Get someone's hormone profile back to, to normal or a better baseline?[00:13:15]

Dave: Uh, I'd start with BMI and body fat levels, assuming, assume, I mean, there's people that are [00:13:20] at healthy body weight levels and healthy body fat levels that have these symptoms, so that doesn't apply to you obviously, if [00:13:25] that's that. But, um. That's just low hanging fruit in terms of the things that are gonna [00:13:30] cause a reduction in some body fat, some better body composition.

Lower your BMI [00:13:35] if you're, if you're overweight. And I, I haven't looked a ton into, I'm not a [00:13:40] testosterone expert, but I know there's like, in, uh, fat is a, like more [00:13:45] of an estrogen producing thing and like is gonna inhibit testosterone. So there's, there's a direct effect to that, but also [00:13:50] the changes that are gonna come with like, okay, if you can commit to.

Going on a daily [00:13:55] walk that's gonna help with that. Like if you can train strength train two or three times a week at a minimum, like if you can start [00:14:00] getting a little bit of cardiovascular activity, hit those guidelines. Like all the things that are gonna [00:14:05] help BMI and, and body fat if you're overweight, is going to directly and [00:14:10] indirectly help that.

Like some of the things they're gonna do that and that and I would, I would lump sleep and stress together probably. [00:14:15] I mean, I think sleep for sure, but sleep and stress, like those are the things that, for [00:14:20] me, it's like, okay, I can go to, I can go to fitness and nutrition very easily, like that's just what I've always done.

[00:14:25] But sleep and stress, especially stress is so, so subjective [00:14:30] there. There are obviously some objective things you can, you can turn it into, but it's like how do I know if I'm more [00:14:35] stressed today and how am I handling stress? Like what, I have three young kids a lot going on. It's like [00:14:40] those are the things that are.

Easier to just put aside of like, oh, that can't possibly be it. I'll just, I'll [00:14:45] just address the things that I'm comfortable addressing. Yeah. Like it can't possibly be all this other, other stress.

Jerred: And I think [00:14:50] you, stress is a, a tough one because I've struggled with it. There have been times in my [00:14:55] life where like I'm absolutely aware that I'm stressed out.

Like it is a stressful time period of life. But then there are [00:15:00] other times where I'm like, is this stress? Like, am I stressed? Do I live in a high stress? Like, I don't know. [00:15:05] And I, I think it doesn't matter either way. You need to have some [00:15:10] sort of practice to counteract our lives. Let's just assume [00:15:15] everyone listening to this right now, you have a stressful life.

Whether it's perceived stress because you think your life [00:15:20] is stressful or actual stress, whatever the case is, you probably live a stressful life. And so you need to do [00:15:25] something that counteracts that. And I really, really think people should. [00:15:30] I've always pushed like breath work, meditation, mindfulness. I just think it actually helps and [00:15:35] breath work I like the most because it is not just more on the woo woo side.

[00:15:40] It's, I got a little bit of that meditative state, but there's also a lot of like studies on the physiological effects of [00:15:45] doing breath work and like focusing on your breathing. So I really like combating stress with simple [00:15:50] breathing practices. I think anyone can implement that and so making that a part of your routine typically only takes five minutes.

[00:15:55] You can do a couple times a day or just once a day to start. And then I think sleep. I think sleep is maybe the [00:16:00] most important one there. And another one that's hard to tackle if you struggle with sleep. But there, I mean, some very basic stuff [00:16:05] with sleep, making sure that your room is incredibly dark, making sure that it's cold, making sure that you're not on [00:16:10] your screen, you know, probably an hour pre-B bedtime if you struggle.

I know [00:16:15] some people have no issues with that whatsoever. Like I know I don't struggle if I watch TV before bed, that doesn't mess with me [00:16:20] at all. Like I, and I don't, I don't typically scroll social media right before bed either, [00:16:25] but like. I haven't seen that one affect me as much. And then if you're like, well, I do it anyway, or I [00:16:30] wanna do that, or then maybe wear some blue blocking glasses, that, that could help with your sleep a little bit.

But sleep [00:16:35] is something that you need to tackle, uh, to the best of your ability because I think that that [00:16:40] one's a huge one for being able to. Increase your testosterone levels a [00:16:45] along with everything else. And, and what I heard you say is basically people need to be doing concurrent training. They need to be doing garage and athlete training.

'cause [00:16:50] you, you need aerobic and you need strength training. I don't, I think there's a lot of research out there that like [00:16:55] heavy lifting helps increase testosterone levels and things like that. It's like, yeah, we need to do that. But it, there are studies that's talk [00:17:00] about aerobic training as well, so you need to be doing both.

So really you just need to [00:17:05] get your crap together and like sleep better, fix your diet. Now on the diet side of things. [00:17:10] I think it's having a mix of healthy fats. High, high amount, high amount of protein, and like [00:17:15] moderate carb. Like I can't give you an exact diet recommendation against very personalized for each person, [00:17:20] but that's the basics of it.

Make sure you're eating enough. Don't undereat, don't overeat. [00:17:25] Play around with those things, but these are the things that you have to do. And I get it. They're all way harder [00:17:30] than. Going online and, and saying you have symptoms and having a, a fake doctor prescribe you TRT, [00:17:35] but like it's worth it I think in the long run, just for your overall health, whether you take TRT or not, there are a lot of things that you [00:17:40] can do.

And then on the supplementation side, magnesium, zinc, vitamin D, [00:17:45] those are the main, the big three. Uh, we could get into some other stuff, but those are the, the big ones. [00:17:50] Either making sure that you're getting those things in your diet or actually just straight supplementing with them. I [00:17:55] know I supplement with vitamin D in the wintertime just 'cause I don't get, go out in the sun as much [00:18:00] and I think I always make sure, um, my vitamin D has, uh, [00:18:05] k it's uh, I think I take an a DK supplement.

And again, a lot of these things I do 'cause my wife tells me [00:18:10] to, but it, it has to do with the like bioavailability of something or something like that. So I do something with [00:18:15] vitamin D in the winter, not as much in the summer. 'cause I'm in Texas and I'm outside a lot and I do. Blood work to test my, [00:18:20] my levels on vitamin D, uh, magnesium, I go on and off supplementing that.

There's so many different [00:18:25] forms of magnesium and I know the one that I can't even have the smallest bit of. Is it [00:18:30] citrate? Is that the one that makes you crap? Is it magnesium citrate? I don't remember, but yeah, this, I [00:18:35] think, I think it's magnesium citrate. Dude. If I have this smallest amount of that, I immediately have digestive [00:18:40] issues, like, and we don't need to go any further than that, but.

I will supplement with different forms of [00:18:45] magnesium here and there, but I also do a lot of leafy greens, uh, so I'm good there. And then zinc, [00:18:50] I have taken a direct zinc supplement, but I've also found, uh, having zinc in like my [00:18:55] multivitamin that it has enough. And then another one that's not talked about as much as boron.[00:19:00]

But that's another one I think you need to be careful with. I wouldn't supplement with straight boron 'cause it is like a metal, right? So it's [00:19:05] like you don't wanna mess with that one. And I could have been, I could misspeak there. It's you [00:19:10] just, you don't want, you don't want a whole lot of like boron by itself.

So making sure that it's a part of something else, [00:19:15] either getting it through your diet or a multivitamin that has a smaller amount. But those are the one, the [00:19:20] supplements I'd focus on. Again, before I would, I would take any kind of pharmaceutical interventions. [00:19:25]

Dave: I think training diet wise, I think, you know, staying away from extremes, people overtrain, [00:19:30] and that affects your testosterone.

If you're under training and doing nothing like. Do some more or do less, like [00:19:35] based on where you fall on that spectrum Diet wise too. Like I, I know people [00:19:40] feel it is individualized. I know some people feel good on certain approaches, but probably staying away from extremes there, like, [00:19:45] I don't think a carnivore, zero carb approach is best for this long term.

And I also don't [00:19:50] think a super low fat diet is, is good. Like just stay away from extremes on some of [00:19:55] those things. And then with the, with diet too. And, and as someone who eats whole foods, like that's the importance [00:20:00] of getting some of these things tested because. We eat pretty clean and we try and get [00:20:05] organic stuff and we eat these things, but like soil content and, and like nutrients in these, [00:20:10] even fruits and veggies have changed over the years that you can be like, I'm eating spinach, which is [00:20:15] high in these vitamins and minerals.

And it's like, well, maybe not the spinach you're eating or it's not getting absorbed. Right. And there that could be [00:20:20] absorption issues. And there's. So many things that can, can get into that. Not, not to overwhelm, like if you're, if [00:20:25] you're eating a bunch of processed foods, like just move towards eating more of those foods.

But if you're already eating [00:20:30] clean, it's still important to, to know some of these things and then circle back what you're saying on the stress [00:20:35] management side of things. I think easy additive practices like breathing is something you can do [00:20:40] while you're working. Like you can do some box breathing like.

In seconds or multitasking [00:20:45] even if you're, the more you practice it, but also looking at subtractive things of like, okay, what can I [00:20:50] take away? Like you mentioned phone use, you mentioned some of these things. Sometimes it's not, if you're already stressed and wired up, [00:20:55] like you're all, all hyped up anyways, you're like, okay, I don't have time to add anything else.

It's like, okay, well can you, [00:21:00] can you work on taking,

Jerred: you can reduce the phone 20 minutes off your phone.

Dave: Yeah. Can you, can you work on doing, which [00:21:05] will also free up time to do these other things. So, uh, looking at from both sides, the, the addition side and the [00:21:10] subtraction side for that.

Jerred: So those are kind of the basic lifestyle guidelines that they hit on and, and [00:21:15] kind of more of our take on that.

And that's a lot of like what I focus on predominantly is just making sure [00:21:20] my basic lifestyle guidelines are hidden to like dialed into the best of my ability. And then [00:21:25] from there, seeing what the blood work says. Now the last thing that they did talk about is [00:21:30] the endocrine disrupting chemicals. EDCs.[00:21:35]

Yeah. So that these are phthalates, parabens, [00:21:40] PFAS and other. Endocrine disrupting chemicals. So what they're talking about here [00:21:45] is, I know they're like these microplastics that are in everybody's water. There [00:21:50] are scents and candles and like whatever those plugin things, [00:21:55] Glade plugins that you have at your house, people have at their houses.

Like there is some truth. [00:22:00] It's what they've found is like in the like lab. [00:22:05] Yeah. It seems like these EDCs are bad. Like it, it. It's [00:22:10] not good for your health. It's not good for your testosterone levels, and we're encountering them at [00:22:15] such a massive scale now that like, it's almost hard to avoid because you might want to do everything that you can to [00:22:20] avoid it, but if you go somewhere else like it, it's just, it's very challenging.

But they're not saying [00:22:25] this is predominant, but it's, this one is like, I think we're, again, we're like at the start of this, it's not like this is [00:22:30] brand new information, but I think. As a human race. We're at the start of this in the, in the grand scheme of [00:22:35] things. And I think some of these things are gonna end up being regulated by the government or banned altogether, [00:22:40] those kind of things.

Uh, because we will, and America sucks at this, like we're, we're [00:22:45] so bad, and I'm not one who's su super pro government regulation or anything, but like Europe [00:22:50] doesn't allow like certain red dyes in their food and stuff. And we just now made some of those decisions right in, in [00:22:55] America with like, I forgot what we banned and maybe it was red 40 or something.

Like, I can't remember what it was, but. [00:23:00] We've known that that crap's bad for over a decade, right? And it takes us so long. So you have to be super proactive [00:23:05] about these things. Yeah, not encountering these things. Um, [00:23:10] like I said, I think more research will come out being like, yep, this is really bad, and it's why your testosterone [00:23:15] is, is not as good as it could be.

Um, so my only take on this, as I [00:23:20] mentioned my wife on this stuff all the time, she. Is really big on making sure that these things aren't in our [00:23:25] household. And so I'm not an expert here. Uh, I really rely on her a lot and, [00:23:30] and to be honest, my entire health journey, I rely on her a lot because I really take care of the, like basic [00:23:35] lifestyle guidelines and the training side, and then I'm like.

Okay on the nutrition side, [00:23:40] but it's the fact that she doesn't really buy crap that allows me to be good on the nutrition side, and then she's super [00:23:45] intelligent when it comes to like this kind of stuff or what we shouldn't have. So we don't have fragrances in our [00:23:50] house. I've talked about having a whole home water filtration system that gets rid of all like the microplastics.

We have [00:23:55] a reverse osmosis at the point of use for our sinks to be able to drink from staying away from [00:24:00] fragrances. This might sound crazy, but I don't even use deodorant anymore. I know I just blew everyone's mind [00:24:05] right there, but I just don't even use it unless I feel like I, I need to, or like whatever.

There are [00:24:10] certain instances I do, and even then the deodorant I have is like, not your typical, I don't even know major brand of deodorant [00:24:15] right now. Old Spice. What's a, a. I don't know. Yeah, like that's, I don't use any kind of [00:24:20] deodorant like that. I use like whatever again my wife buys and tells me is, is okay.

So anyway, staying away [00:24:25] from all of these things, I don't use lotions. I, the soap I use is, uh, Dr. Bronner's, you know, like I, [00:24:30] I just, I try to use everything that's clean as possible, fragrance free to the most part, like all [00:24:35] those kind of things. Again, because I'm not sitting here saying, yeah, [00:24:40] all EDCs are bad.

It looks like the science pointing that direction. But I'm always on the, on the, in the camp of like. [00:24:45] How much does this change my life to not have it like, like if I [00:24:50] Old Spice versus a different deodorant, it doesn't change my life that much. And what if Old Spice is perfectly [00:24:55] fine? It's like I didn't suffer.

You know what I mean? Like that. That's how I make a lot of these decisions. [00:25:00] So anyway. What are, what are your thoughts on these endocrine disrupting chemicals that seem to be taking over the world? [00:25:05] You didn't suffer

Dave: with thought, but the people around you say other people. Yes. Again, not my problem. [00:25:10]

Jerred: It's not my problem.

It's other people's problem.

Dave: Yeah. We've been, uh. We've been in [00:25:15] this camp too. I've, I've been aware, I'm, I'm on that side too, where it's like I see enough on it. I'm, I'm like you, I'm like, okay, we're [00:25:20] not gonna, we're not gonna know for sure getting rid of these things. Like I don't think this is something compared to the lifestyle [00:25:25] stuff.

Like you lose, if you're 25% body fat and you get down to a. 20 [00:25:30] or 18 or 15, it's like you'll probably see significant improvements in your, your blood work and those things too. And [00:25:35] that's where we talk about low hanging fruit. If I change all the cleaning chemicals outta my house and retest my blood [00:25:40] work, like is it gonna come back different in a three month span?

But like what happens when we [00:25:45] stretch those timelines out? So we're, we're aware of that stuff. That, and I, I do think it's worth [00:25:50] moving towards that. I think if it causes more stress for people, which I know it does. There's some people [00:25:55] I know that get like. Forget overly stressed about coming. Yeah, I forget about that

Jerred: because I'm not that way.

Like [00:26:00] I didn't know that was a thing. Like a, it's like a, it's a diagnosis now [00:26:05] where people who wear sleep trackers and then. I forgot the name [00:26:10] of the, the condition, but it's like you're so hyper aware if something is tracking you [00:26:15] sleep that it screws up your sleep. I've never, I, I can't even like slightly resonate with that.

Like I just [00:26:20] fall asleep. I'm like, you tell me in the morning. See you in the morning. Like, I don't even think about it. But you're right that people get so stressed out [00:26:25] about this stuff that it like can probably negatively affect your life.

Dave: Yeah, I bet. I bet that counter. [00:26:30] But we knew that worked up over, and that's, that's the cleaning stuff.

I know that's with. Certain, certain food [00:26:35] stuff. There's like, when you're so afraid of, of anything like that, that stress can, can [00:26:40] counteract that. But we've moved towards that, towards some of that. Like, but Lindsay and I had to come to the point where there was one [00:26:45] point where, I don't remember how, I mean it's quite a few years ago where we started being like, okay, we're gonna make this change.

If you try [00:26:50] and overhaul that at once, though it gets, it does get, it does get stressful and it gets expensive. Like these things are [00:26:55] not, you know, some of these things are not cheap when you're used to buying. I don't even know. I, I don't know. I also dunno what [00:27:00] dealer is these days. Like a three, four old bucks?

Yeah. Like a, but like a three, $4 thing of it [00:27:05] versus like, now it's like, oh, to get a good quality, like aluminum free this, I'm like 15 bucks for like [00:27:10] a dealer. How long is this thing gonna, how long is this thing? Don't use it or just don't use it. I'm [00:27:15] budget friendly, but the, I, I agree with the minimalist approach of been trying to avoid [00:27:20] those things.

I think if you're listening to it, you. Haven't done that. Like think of small, like [00:27:25] you can sub out one thing at a time, like over time as you run out of stuff, like just [00:27:30] replace it with something. Like, you don't have to go throw out everything in your house, but you can find some small ways [00:27:35] to just start to replace things as they, as they do it.

Or throw your deodorant out and never take it back. I think that's [00:27:40] another, yeah, another option there.

Jerred: Well, I, I run into people talking about this all the time because some people [00:27:45] get, and, and this is mainly like friends I talk to in this area 'cause they'll like maybe ask me a question about it and then I [00:27:50] realize how like.

Absolutely psycho My life is compared to other people when I'm like, [00:27:55] how much I actually avoid, but it was like the, the frog in boiling water, right? I didn't do this [00:28:00] overhaul overnight 'cause I watched a YouTube video or, or saw an Instagram reel. It was like [00:28:05] we just learn one thing at a time and we make a small tweak.

And then you're 15 years later and it's like. [00:28:10] We don't do a lot of stuff that people normally do, and it just kind of compounded. So [00:28:15] a lot of people throw their hands up in frustration and they're like, everything's gonna kill you. I'm not gonna do anything. And I think that's the [00:28:20] wrong approach, I think, uh, because I'm not saying like, no, you need to go do it all.

I'm saying No, [00:28:25] just, just do something. Right? Like, like when we started to research water a lot [00:28:30] more and like if that was actually a big deal many, many years ago, we just started with like what the most [00:28:35] affordable approach was to trying to start to filter our water. And then [00:28:40] now we have a reverse osmosis.

But I think about it a lot more for my kids than I even do [00:28:45] myself, because that's where my litmus test is to, because if someone's like, [00:28:50] yeah, tap water's really bad, it's gonna kill you. And I'm like, okay, maybe I, maybe I don't believe you. But then I'm [00:28:55] like, is there enough truth to that to where I might worry about my kids slightly?

I'm like, yeah. So now I'm gonna [00:29:00] spend the money, so I'm out, whatever, 500, 600 bucks to get a reverse osmosis system under my sink. [00:29:05] There are. Way more things I could spend money on, right? Like in, in the grand scheme of [00:29:10] things that aren't going to improve my health and not protect my kids. And I, I'm not saying that, that [00:29:15] that one decision is a bulletproof thing, but that's how I look at things now.

I'm like. Okay. Maybe I don't [00:29:20] care that much, but am I okay feeding my kid this food? Am I okay letting my kid drink that thing? Am I [00:29:25] okay having a fragrance thing in my kid's room if it smells bad in there? Like I got a, one of my kids' [00:29:30] boy's, a teenager now. Yeah. But I'm like, well, there's enough of a risk here to where I'm not gonna do it at all, and I know [00:29:35] about it.

So I mean that, that's kind of how I make decisions on these things. But what you can't do, like I said, you can't just throw up your hands [00:29:40] in the air. Say it's all too much. I'm not gonna do any of it. If it stresses you out, I get it. But just [00:29:45] try one small thing, one tweak here and there, and then build on those.

See if you feel any different. But I'm with you, Dave, if your [00:29:50] testosterone's low and you're like, you know, 'cause the first part was just like, maybe the [00:29:55] measurement's different, but the second part of this is like, okay, we could take some supplements, we can work out. That's gonna be the, that's 80, [00:30:00] 90% of it right there.

It's not. Stop using deodorant and you triple [00:30:05] your testosterone. Like that's not gonna happen. It's, it's gonna be a majority of this is like, get your [00:30:10] body fat percentage down, fix your sleep, fix your stress, some simple supplements or diet changes. [00:30:15] Then after that, you can start worrying about all these little things, EDCs and, and other stuff.

And then you'll [00:30:20] start to move the needle. I can, I can almost guarantee it.

Dave: Yeah. I think, don't, don't get overwhelmed [00:30:25] when you hear this. There's, there's a lot of things, and if this is new to you or some of these things are newer to [00:30:30] you, it's like, start. Start with one thing and like stack, like we've talked [00:30:35] about, have a stack and we talked about go listen to the EO three elements podcast we did maybe two, three months [00:30:40] ago.

It's like those things are going to move the needle more than anything and have some kind of [00:30:45] regular schedule probably to get these things looked at though. 'cause you don't know, like sometimes you [00:30:50] don't realize how. Bad you feel, and like sometimes the blood work, like, like some of those things, if you [00:30:55] haven't made those changes or you're like, no, I, I feel fine.

And it's like, well, if you don't know what good feels like, then [00:31:00] sometimes there could be stuff going on behind the scenes that you could, you could feel a whole lot better with if you had more awareness [00:31:05] around it.

Jerred: And not everything is like, because I've been testing my blood for a while and it [00:31:10] was, uh, probably like two years ago.

I was like, I just don't feel [00:31:15] as like, like I wanna rip the head off of a [00:31:20] lion type. Sky anymore, and I'm like, maybe, maybe my testosterone's trending [00:31:25] downward. That was my thought, just because I was like, I don't feel as aggressive. I don't feel like I, [00:31:30] I just don't, I didn't have that as much anymore, and I tested my testosterone.

There's no, there's no difference. [00:31:35] And so part of it as I'm like, maybe you're maturing. Like, maybe, maybe this is wisdom. [00:31:40] Maybe that's what it's called. Maybe like you're just a little bit more chill and like, you know, you don't need to be [00:31:45] that aggressive and you're more patient with like, long haul things.

And like your previous approach to [00:31:50] life was a little bit more burn the candle at both ends. And like, but it is not effective. So like not [00:31:55] everything is a, is a low T symptom. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Like, and I had the data to, to back up that feeling. Uh, [00:32:00] 'cause otherwise I, if I'd never tech checked my TI might be like, yeah, it's low, it's gotta be [00:32:05] low.

Like I know it is. And it's like, no. I think you're just getting older, bro. I think that's it. Like, yeah. [00:32:10] Wiser, older, wiser, wiser. Think this is what wisdom feels

Dave: like. This is what it feels like. I think [00:32:15] the, uh, change the mindset too. I, I'm, I'm with you. I don't know enough about TRT. Like I'm [00:32:20] pushing off as long as I can.

I'm not saying I'll never take it, but that's, the game isn't like, okay, how do [00:32:25] I get my testosterone? The highest, which will be a different starting point than like, okay, how [00:32:30] do I push this off as long as I can and do as much as I can naturally knowing that [00:32:35] something feels off about guys in their twenties or thirties taking, [00:32:40] taking extra testosterone if you tried those other things and if,

Jerred: yeah.

Dave: Um, like, [00:32:45] like you're talking about earlier.

Jerred: That's what I'm saying, like, again, I don't, I'm not trying to discourage people from taking it. [00:32:50] 'cause I think you should not take it. That's not necessarily the message. It's [00:32:55] let's, let's fix everything. And then if it's like, yeah, you legitimately have low T, then fix [00:33:00] it.

Uh, 'cause I, I can almost guarantee I'll go on TRT. Uh, it's just a matter of when, [00:33:05] and I'm hoping that there's two numbers in that digit when it comes to years. [00:33:10] Like, I, I like 10, 15, 20 years, not, like, not in the next three years. Um, and [00:33:15] that's because I know. I would do it under doctor supervision, I'd do the lowest dose possible again, [00:33:20] but I want to, I wanna push that off as long as I possibly can, because I know at some point it'll just be helpful.

It'd [00:33:25] be like a therapeutic dose that's like, just increases my quality of life. I don't wanna suffer because I just am anti [00:33:30] TRT, I just don't want to take it in my thirties and who knows how long we'll live. Live. Like, I don't wanna go on that tangent, but [00:33:35] like. I, I mean, I'm completely like, I could die tomorrow.

But at the same time with like all these like [00:33:40] advancements in technology and AI and everything else, maybe we do live to one 20 more easily than than [00:33:45] previous. If a lot of like medical interventions come online and you, a lot of people might be a little [00:33:50] bit sad if they started TRT at 25, you know, and uh, you're living to, you got another a hundred years, you know what [00:33:55] I mean?

Like, I don't know, again, I don't know what that looks like at the end of that. So anyway, there, there's a lot to unpack there. But [00:34:00] ultimately here, garage Gym athlete, we're trying to do things the right way. Um, trying to give you the. [00:34:05] You know, a lot of our opinion and, and just kind of like our level headed approach to health, [00:34:10] fitness, nutrition, everything in between.

So you, you take it for what it's worth, this is what this, uh, [00:34:15] scientific research study said, and you can start to do your own research and go down your own path of increasing your [00:34:20] testosterone levels or at least trying to keep them the same as as you age. But that's it for this one. If [00:34:25] you wanna join the community, the best community for garage gym athletes on the planet, go to garage gym [00:34:30] athlete.com, sign up for a trial.

We'd love to have you. Uh, and then for all of our athletes out there in the community, thank [00:34:35] you so much for your interaction, engagement, being a part of the community for as long as you have. Really appreciate it. [00:34:40] That's it for this one. Remember, if you don't kill comfort. Comfort will kill you.