Is It Better To Do Strength First Or Hypertrophy?

Garage Gym Athlete
Is It Better To Do Strength First Or Hypertrophy?

Hey, Athletes! This week we are talking about programming. Spoiler: it may not matter if you follow a strength program first then transition to a hypertrophy program and vice versa! Make sure to check this one out!

Episode 126 of The Garage Gym Athlete Podcast is up!

Is It Better To Do Strength First Or Hypertrophy? 

This week we go over a study that looks at the difference between starting a strength program and then switching over to a hypertrophy program versus starting hypertrophy and then switching to strength. The coaches provide some good takeaways and ultimately link this study to our own programming! This week's topic is all on wearables. The coaches share how they use their wearables, which brands they've had, and what they'd like to have in the future. Lastly, this week's Meet Yourself Saturday is an oldie but a goodie-Condition Me To The Grave. Listen up for some tips on this one and a new challenge!

If you haven’t already, be sure to subscribe to the Garage Gym Athlete podcast either on Stitcher, iTunes, or Google Play by using the link below:


  • Wearables
  • Training Order 
  • Condition Me To The Grave   
  • Strength
  • Hypertrophy 
  • Tips For MYS
  • Updates and Announcements
  • And A LOT MORE!!

Diving Deeper… 

If you want to go a little bit deeper on this episode, here are some links for you: 

Study of the Week  

Garage Gym Athlete Workout of the Week 

Be sure to listen to this week’s episode:


Thanks for listening to the podcast, and if you have any questions be sure to add it to the comments below!

To becoming better!



Jerred Moon 0:00
Ready All right, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the garage gym athlete podcast. Jerred moon here with Ashley Hicks Kyle Shrum and Joe Courtney. Everyone. How you doing?

Kyle Shrum 0:12
Morning, you? Well?

Jerred Moon 0:16
Well, is that the start of a sentence or the statement in which was

Joe Courtney 0:20
saying Well,

Unknown Speaker 0:22
surely well period all right.

Kyle Shrum 0:25
Yes. Oh, well,

Jerred Moon 0:27
very well. Alright, I'm updates. All right all right we can do good to get the updates maybe we're still here. So yeah, that's uh, if you're on YouTube you really good to see Kyle's life there. One day we're gonna, like log on and Kyle's gonna have like, shirts hanging from the rack. And we're gonna be like, you didn't? You didn't, you're giving it up. Because that rack is completely unusable right now and has been for months. He says he's got to,

Kyle Shrum 1:03
we have another one right over there. Alright, that's the warning. Well,

Jerred Moon 1:10
speaking of something unrelated, the study, the study we're going over today is order of resistance training cycles to develop strength and muscle thickness and resistance trained men a pilot study. So I found this study very interesting from really not a pilot, not a study. Yeah, that would be cool, though. It'd be very specific. You know, the one study I want to cover is why pilots have predominantly females. Yeah. That's like, children. The actual it's an actual study. Because Scott, like he didn't fall into the the norm there.

Kyle Shrum 1:51
Oh, you mean their children? Children?

Joe Courtney 1:55
Just have them around.

Kyle Shrum 1:56
Yeah. Yeah, man, this could go so many ways.

Jerred Moon 2:00
Yeah. All right. No, so there's an actual study done. It's not just like, it wasn't just like, oh, yeah, that kind of happens. There's an actual study on it with done in the Air Force about how pilots predominantly have female children, like at a higher rate than, than the normal population. There's like a lot of speculation as to why. So we can cover that if you ever want to do a pilot study. But this pilot study is order of resistance training cycles to develop strength and muscle thickness. And the reason I found this one interesting is because the main thing they were looking at was just, if you were to do a hypertrophy cycle, which is building muscle, and then follow that with a strength cycle, you know, what kind of effects is that having the same if you did the reverse, like, does it really matter. And that that's what I took out of it is not necessarily what they were looking at. And so I just want to make sure that he is aware of that. But they had 16 subjects who completed study, they were required to have at least one year of resistance training experience, with a training frequency of at least three sessions per week. And I'm just gonna put very simple, they had six weeks of strength, six weeks of hypertrophy for total 12 week cycle. And then there was one group that did that, and then there was a reverse of that. So they would start instead of strength, they would start with hypertrophy. And then they'd go to strength. And they were looking at all of those things that I mentioned, muscle thickness, wonder Max, all those kinds of things. And they didn't find a huge amount of difference. And I'll get into the takeaways in some of my points here. But that's it, this study is very simple, very easy to cover, we won't even probably have a lot to say, if I had, I'm not gonna speak for anyone else. But there's not a lot to pull out of this, in all honesty, but I will throw it to the team before I take any of the few points that there are. So what do you guys think of this one?

Joe Courtney 3:54
specifics on their training, the reps, they actually want to make sure they're done to a cadence. Every three at the minimum, every three seconds was a rep done. And the there was a high reps and reserve that was reported with it, then loads were adjusted to make sure that they all fell within the parameters of the strength parameters were to four reps. And if they could do more than they added more weight, and vice versa, then the hypertrophy were 10 to 12 reps. And again, if they were out of those parameters, they would adjust the weight. So they, they get pretty good. In line with that it wasn't just like, hey, here's your sets, or do whatever it was maintaining the right amount of effort within certain rep parameters, which is good. One thing that I pulled out from it, which was kind of interesting was that when you looked at all the data, and they compared, you know, overall strength stuff, they're all pretty much the same. There's one thing that it was It wasn't found significant, but every single metric, the strength first athletes had more volume over the cycle. And I guess that could make sense because if you're doing strength first, then you can lift more and then and then therefore, you're hypertrophy sets are a little bit heavier. So something to note, like it wasn't, again, it wasn't super significant. But it is still something to note that, you know, if you do strength first that maybe you will, in the long run like a longer term, because short term, it didn't really matter. But extrapolating that over, you know, because you're not just going to do a 12 week cycle, especially, you know, most of our athletes they join, they're here for, you know, six or so months. So the long term, if you want to lift more volume, then you possibly target strength first. But at the same time, I think it's going super heavy, when you're still new to lifting is a may not be the best bet. But anyway, that's just anecdotally on the side. But other than that, yeah, that's all I really wanted, I wanted to kind of pull out and then the fact that you know, the whole bro logic, once again, kind of goes out the window. And it's just a good example of not to nitpick and fuss over what order you do your programming and cycles in, because in the long run, it's going to pretty much equally equate out to that thinking. I thought, Kyle,

Kyle Shrum 6:04
so they did do some self reported nutrition, which I thought was cool. They were they actually threw that component in there, they weren't tracking nutrition all the time they checked in, they checked in three different times over the entire study of their nutrition. But for each so weeks, one, eight and 15 they checked in but they checked in three days per week. For those those three specific weeks, so I thought that was cool that they threw in a little nutrition, they actually weren't allowed to use supplements during the intervention, which was interesting. And and basically everybody was on the same was reporting the same macros, they didn't give them a specific macro plan to follow. But basically, everybody was pretty much equal as far as like the calories and the macro breakdown. So I thought that was interesting. But also, the RPE rather, rate of perceived exertion for these training sessions was pretty darn high. It was like it was around a nine and a half. For all these people. And these people were resistance training, they were already they had to have, as we stated earlier, they had to have at least a year of resistance training experience, and at least a year of the specific movements that were going to be used in the intervention during the study. And so they these people knew what they were doing and had been doing it for a long time. And yet, they were still reporting like high rate of perceived exertion. So these these, these sessions were hard, these sessions were tough. And, and so I think that's also a note to be made of, if you want to make improvements, you got to do the hard work, right, it's not just about going in and doing, you know, whatever you want and expecting, you know, results. Like if you want the good results, you want real results, then you got to go in and you got to put in the hard work. And not every session needs to be a nine and a half, you know what I mean? Not every session has to be an hour and a half, we don't advocate going going super hard and beating yourself up for every session. But especially when you compound these sessions on top of each other, and you're doing four sessions a week and things like that. They can, you can really get fatigued and in that RPE can really go up and stay there. So I thought that was interesting. But also, I think one of the biggest things is like strength is still the foundation, that's something that we say a lot of like, if you want to be better at anything, you got to start with strength, like everybody needs to do resistance training. If you want to be better at anything, you want to be faster, you want to go go further, whatever it is that you're you want to jump higher, whatever it is you want to do, you need to be stronger, you need to get stronger strength is the foundation for everything. And, and I think they made that point at the end. In their conclusion, they said Lastly, these results must not be extrapolated to other populations, such as untrained individuals. So they were saying that, like the results that these participants saw during the study can't be extrapolated to people who weren't already trained, right? Like if you took the if you took this exact same study in this exact same intervention, and you put brand new lifters in it, they're saying you would not see these results, this is not what it would look like it would look drastically different. And it would also look drastically different for people who were more experienced then, then the participants that we were working with, because they made that that distinction as well of they may hypothesis that you know, hot, more highly trained individuals going through the same intervention would probably not see as robust of results simply because they they were already further along. So strength is still the foundation you have to start you can't go and I when I was looking at these at the sessions that they were doing, I was like man, newbies definitely don't need to do this kind of stuff. This is a lot of volume. This is a lot of a lot of load. So anyway, strength is the foundation you want to get better at things you need to start, you need to start with strength you need to start with getting stronger, actually.

Ashley Hicks 9:55
Um, so I think for just something else to pull out of the study kind Going powdercoated first strength they focused on more compound movements just meaning you target different muscle groups with one kind of lifts like for squats benching whatever, right? You're not just using like one set of muscle and then hypertrophy, they did a mix of compound movements versus single, which makes a lot more sense, right, and makes more sense that they did more reps for the hypertrophy versus the strength. But at the end of the day, there was no significant difference between the two. So, I don't know for our takeaway for our listeners, I think it all depends on what your goals are. And I said, don't be afraid to lose out on strength when you, you know, for those that go to the shred track, and are focusing more on the hypertrophy point, it just disproves the theory that you're just going to lose out on all this strength, because you're trying to focus on you know, maybe losing weight, or maybe, maybe going for a different goal. So my feeling comfort for this was just plan out your year of training, based on your either your goals or your events or whatnot, and pick a focus, and then focus on those goals and just get after it. Like, I don't know, I feel like people have a lot of FOMO of different tracks, because they're like, why don't I know, I really want to be strong, like in the strength track. But, man, everybody's talking about this and harder to kill. And I feel like a lot of our tracks are our training our programming with different focuses in mind, right? And so I feel like, it doesn't matter kind of what track you pick, you're gonna you're gonna hit and target your goals. And I think you just need to kind of figure out what what those are. Chairman, manager.

Jerred Moon 11:38
So I looked at this from a, just a big, big picture programming standpoint. And that's the main reason I wanted to cover it, because they were talking about programming in 12 weeks cycles, which is something that we do, they did break up their programming kind of into six week blocks, which we don't necessarily do. We do four week waves, but I wouldn't. When I program, I don't typically change the goal. Every four weeks, we just hit the same goal. Yeah, we had the same goal, like throughout the same 12 weeks. But looking at it from that perspective, because there is not a lot of research on this topic. And when I kind of started programming for garage mathlete, at the very beginning, it was kind of, we'll see what happens, you know, because it hadn't, I'm gonna say like, hadn't been done. I'm sure people were doing it, but it wasn't documented anywhere. Because the type of training that we're doing is like, it's just being what I am talking specifically hard to kill track, because that's what I programmed, it's, it was the only track for a few years at garage, gym athlete before we open up other ones. And so the methodology is very concrete there, but we would just switch. So be like, Okay, this 12 week cycle, we're doing strength, and we're gonna be going for like raw one rep max strength, then the next 12 weeks, we're not doing that anymore, we're going to hypertrophy. And then sometimes strength would be our major focus, and then sometimes to be our minor focus, and we flip flop all the time on the hard to kill track. And like I said, we first started, it was kind of like, well, we'll see what happens. And what happened was, people continue to see results. And they continue to get stronger, they continued to gain muscle like thing, everything moved in the right direction. We did this even though there was no research, there was no literature on any of this. We just had to go with basically what I thought would work. And this study kind of proves that that it's true. And it doesn't mean you can just do anything. You still you still should be working in some sort of block, or you know, or goal like to Ashley's point for like, a set amount of time, but you can switch and the hard to kill track specifically, if you're on it. And we switch, you just you don't need to be so worried about what you're going to lose in the in the athletes who are really bought into our training, they get that and they stick with it. And they know things are going to still progress forward. But there are other athletes who come in with this particular background, or they think things should be done a certain way. And they don't understand like, Okay, well, like this, I can already tell you, the start of 2022 Hard to Kill track is going to strengthen minor. So it will not be a strengthen major, that means that we will still have strengthen there. But it's going to be limited compared to what we have been doing. There'll be more energy system focus as the major. And for some people that actually will be a turn off when they hear that when we do the briefs, they'll be like okay, well, I'm going to string track, I'm going to track whatever. But you don't need to worry about you know, you don't need to worry about it because I'm going to make sure all these things are taken care of we're looking I you know, specifically at studies right now on how to make sure that this is implemented correctly. So I think as long as you are still operating in longer blocks, longer training cycles, you can switch back and forth and you're still going to see plenty of results. And you don't need to be so concerned about everything being so perfect because I mean how how long can you honestly Do just hypertrophy cycle after cycle after cycle or one rep max strength cycle after cycle after cycle without getting burned out without getting bored without getting hurt, you know, you need to mix things up. And I think it's better for you. So that's all I got from the study was, it's effective, it's effective strategy to flip flop, even down to six weeks. But that also was my kind of criticism of the study is I do wish they would have done 12 and 12, I would have loved to see 12 and 12, as opposed to a 12 week block where they did six and six. I would love to see 12 weeks all strength 12 weeks all hypertrophy and see if there's any bigger difference, because I really think 12 weeks is the magic number for seeing results. A to move that needle, I think six weeks is better from a mental standpoint, like keeping someone engaged I think 12 weeks is is the reality of what works. That's why we've stuck to 12 week cycles that garage gym athlete. But I think that that's, that's very important as you as you go through things. So that's it. And so Michael uncomfort would be you have any of these problems in your mind about what you may or may not work, then just get over it. You know, that's that's kind of my, my takeaway there.

Kyle Shrum 16:17
Yeah, I agree. And my killing cover for this is very, very similar. I just kind of said, avoid the shiny objects, and just do the work. So don't have this, this, don't get caught up in, in oh, I need to do hypertrophy in order to to gain hypertrophy, or I need to do strength so I can get stronger. Like all that kind of like, which one do I do. And it's just kind of like, it's kind of the same thing that Ashley said as well. It's like, just, especially if you're here, if you're a garage, gym athlete, you're following our programming, you're, you're gonna hit what you want to hit, you know what I mean? Just Just join up and do the work. You know, don't, don't get distracted by by the fancy things, or the shiny objects or things like that, just do the work, and you're gonna get it, you're gonna hit whatever you need to hit.

Jerred Moon 16:59
Yeah, and I just want to add to that, because I have a new theory. And it's the only way to get weaker is to stop training. And I know that sounds like super like, Duh. But what I mean by that is, I have gone through cycles, where I don't touch more than 65 70%, you know, especially when I my back was hurt, like I wasn't going heavy at all. Sometimes I would skip the strength session, and my back was hurting really bad. And I do something. I do like air squats instead of loaded back squats, like I would do all these things differently. And I was super concerned, I was like, I'm going to be like, super weak, maybe the weakest I've been because I hadn't taken. You know, in the last decade and a half, I hadn't taken time off from lifting something heavy at some point during a month or a week. And so I was like, This is gonna be bad. And so when I finally was feeling better, and I started throwing weight back on the bar, we're talking about months and months of it being like this, like months and months of me doing this, my Max was down, but it wasn't crushed day wasn't because I'd ever been that's for sure. And, and it came back super fast. And we've talked about that a lot before, like, it comes back super fast. But that's a big difference. I think had I gone from you know what my back's hurt, I'm just gonna stop exercising for six months. And I'll pick it back up in six months, you know, that would have been a very different story, my back squat, back squat would probably go down to like 250. And like it just be huge, which is not a heavy back squat for me personally. And so there would be a huge problem, right? If I had to put it in context for people just wait waters.

Kyle Shrum 18:44
Yeah, so we get it?

Jerred Moon 18:45
Yeah. Yeah. Today, I'm trying to let everybody know how strong I am. I do frequently. So anyway, I, I think if I had just taken complete time off, I would have been a lot weaker. So I think as long as you're consistently training, you're going to maintain that strength to some degree, so I wouldn't worry about it so much. And I also talk about this all the time of like, standards, just like have a standard and leave it there. That's that's what I had to do for myself, or else I'd always be chasing the more, you know, like more this more that like more muscle more strength, but I'm just kind of happy with a certain level of strength. I don't necessarily need it to be more and so if you can kind of get to that level and because you ultimately have to answer the question of what's enough. And if you can't really answer that question, or is it 1000 Pound squat? Okay, like, where does it end? You have to set that standard and be okay with it. So, I think that's a good good way to look at how many people about strength session.

Ashley Hicks 19:44
How many studies have we just shown that like, it's like, as long as you're moving? It's fine. Or what was the one that like, if you just envisioned yourself doing the heavyweight like, and they still had the same strength numbers like it just makes me back to think that like, yeah,

Jerred Moon 20:01
I should have implemented that more when I was just patient. Why? No, no, no, you're just gonna sit in my garage and

Joe Courtney 20:13
actually sit in this in the spot right? In the garage in this car.

Kyle Shrum 20:18
I had to move my garage door first. So yeah,

Joe Courtney 20:22
you get into that.

Unknown Speaker 20:25
Housing work down months.

Joe Courtney 20:29
Visualize a lot. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 20:32
Visualizing plan and it's working.

Kyle Shrum 20:34
Yeah. Good to go.

Jerred Moon 20:36
Alright, well, let's get into our topic for the day unless anybody had anything else. Going, going three times sold to topic. Alright, so we're talking. We're talking wearables and fitness technology overall. And so the the kind of topic, how we I would like to navigate these topics are first, let's kind of talk about wearables. You know, what's helpful, what's not helpful in tracking, we all have some sort of wearable that we're tracking, I oftentimes talk about how tracking for tracking sake can get quite ridiculous. So what are the helpful, helpful metrics that we've seen our favorite wearables? Like we can, it's okay to mention brand names. There are no sponsors here. And so, yeah, yeah, why we might disagree which company though, I know, we'll get we'll get into that, like our our wearable suggestion and metrics we think are worth tracking. And then we kind of want to go broader here and thoughts on upcoming technology. So we're going to talk about things like peloton mirror, what would be to be honest competitors with us, since we're in the home fitness niche, and so are they. And, you know, kind of talking about more of a thought experiment, or these types of systems and technology is going to crush thing people like us garage mafia, they ultimately going to have us close our doors, because no one's going to be interested in doing hard things in the garage. You know, and that's something that I'd love to talk about with the team here and let everyone else, you know, open their mind to similar conversations. So let's start with wearables. You know, what's helpful? What's not? What are your thoughts on this one?

Joe Courtney 22:17
So as we learned, just first side note, as we learned today, us three can agree on something but then Jared can swoop in and just pick I think, which I'm okay with, because it's picked would probably be done. So that's fine.

Jerred Moon 22:29
Let me just comment on that for a second. Now that he has said that, so before Oh, no, I'll let everyone everyone deep behind the scenes. For today's podcast. Today, we're talking about 12 week training cycles. We're talking about fitness technology and wearables. Okay, here's what was planned for you audience before

Joe Courtney 22:49
proposed for

Jerred Moon 22:52
the study was going to be about trolling old back. Yeah. So the original study that had been selected was about tripping old people like actually tripping them on purpose, to help them gain balance, and then become better. And so that was the study, it was the most hilarious study that's ever been proposed. And then the topic was favorite Christmas movies. So I'm not opposed to these things. We'll have to let the listeners vote. So if you are one of our members, and you're in the Facebook group, let us know if you want to hear that episode. I'm sure that you do. I know that I probably will get voted with teased it now, on the island here. Someone wants to hear about old man tripping and Christmas movies. And that's what we'll title the episode. But that's that's what we're gonna do.

Joe Courtney 23:47
Joe, maybe, yeah, maybe we'll just have to head up our own side.

Unknown Speaker 23:53
All right. Oh, that was just funny what today was shaping up to be otherwise,

Joe Courtney 23:57
off the rails, you know, but we all get together. So wearables recoveries, metrics and stuff like that. I've had, I've had whoop, Garmin, Apple or now. And I used to pay attention to recovery metrics a ton, especially with like, however, variability in resting heart rate, but like, after a while, I realize mine just weren't changing. And it's like, okay, they're not really changing that much. Unless I'm doing something crazy, whether it's injured, traveling, you know, red eyes or drinking and it's like, Well, duh, I know why that's messed up. I don't need to, I don't need this wearable to tell me that. So now I've started to only really pay attention to it when it comes to how I like, I'll look at my metrics and say, okay, you know, it says, pay attention today, my resting heart rates two or three above normal, but I think I feel fine. So I'm still good to train. So it'll I base that off of what I actually feel and what I'm feeling like now. There's some days where it says, I'm doing amazing and I'm just like, Man, I don't want to work out today. Sometimes those times I'm like, well, that's just me being me being a wuss or something. So I just, clearly I can, I can do this and I'll be fine. But if I'm not feeling good, and my metrics aren't that great either, and I have like a really heavy or really intense day, then I checked flip flop my days, I'll change day around, I'll either go to like, if there was like a volume day or like a non heavy day or a zone today, I'll flip flop those days around in for a day that I'm more likely to be a little bit better at it. And then I'll just try and work on those metric units. Alright, and sleep and stuff, you know, because if I have a really really crappy night's sleep, I don't want to go and be squatting 90 90% back squat or something like that. So I'll change my days around looking at metrics there, but I haven't really gotten too obsessed about my metrics and looking at like Memorial everyday. There's, there's some days I only need to look for, because I'm like, Yeah, you know, I'm fine. Or like, today's just a recovery run day anyways, I'm just gonna go do it no matter what my thing says. So yeah, I'll pay attention when I need to sometimes it's just fun to look at stuff especially after you know, certain traveling and seeing how I'm bouncing back from, from like, all these cross country flights and stuff. But other than that, I I'm always gravitating more toward I like looking at my in workout metrics more than my recovery metrics. Gregory I feel like I've gotten pretty good at knowing and just like adjusting from there. But like I'm looking at getting I'm a Garmin user, and I really love the Garmin 5x but I you know when when more gear tells me about what the Garmin six doesn't like, what the hell year says that mine doesn't know. I want that. And so now I'm like really one of the six Yeah, yeah, I get I get wearable FOMO.

Jerred Moon 26:37
I didn't even know I've only had the one garment. So I don't I got to stop. A lot of these things are common across Oh, your

Joe Courtney 26:43
mind does. Now the new auras out and as we're looking at the aura, I'm like, well, there's really not that much. I'm not going to wear it like they have activity checking. But I'm really not going to wear during the activity because it's still a metal ring. So yeah, I'm I'm more like to see my inactivity tracking. But that's because I have so long of looking at recovery metrics, just kind of knowing how to pivot from there. But it would be really good to know, certain recovery stuff. And Liz said her aura, kind of she kind of figured out she was pregnant, because of like her aura sets, like her body temperature and some other things and a resting heart rate we're adjusting. And she's like, Oh, well, I guess this might be it. But that's just,

Jerred Moon 27:26
I mean, they have that like on their website. It's like a like period tracking and like pregnancy and like all these things. I know. When we were trying for baby number one, Emily was doing all this stuff with before these things existed. She was like taking your temperature every morning and like keeping it in a journal and then like she knew to you know, she it's just it's crazy. What you can tell from some like basic metrics, you don't have to have like, really sophisticated technology to do this stuff.

Joe Courtney 27:58
Yeah. But actually, how do you feel about wearables?

Ashley Hicks 28:02
So I am not in the camp of Joe I have not tried all the things I've only had an Apple Watch so everybody listening, just know that I've always given Luke crap because I always hated the like, I'm in the red, I'm in the yellow, I'm in the green. I always thought was like, Well, if you're feeling good, and you're in the red, just go ahead and train I don't know, I've always just felt like you should be more in tune with your body versus letting a wearable dictate whether you should train or not. Um, but for Apple, it's been super helpful for me because of again, everybody knows I'm going through so much hormonal shift in my body that I have to know where my heart rate was. And so when I was first starting out, I was noticing like, what movements would you know, jacket, my heart rate, what movements you know, oddly didn't that kind of stuff and so it was able it was great for me to be able to stay within the correct zones that I wanted to stay within so it's not nice to have that for that reason. And just what Joe said like I love it for when I'm actually training. I also use Apple Watch for the other stuff so not training like you know, I like it because I can call someone I can go on a run with just this I can. I like that I don't have to have my phone with me at all times and I have the five I think is what it is. But again, I think now like from training with it for because gosh I've been doing this over a year now. I kind of know where my heart rate is and know where my zones are like I could probably train without this and know when to kind of dial it in and when to not like Jared just kind of talked about this too. Like I know when I'm in zone two I know when I'm not in zone two kind of thing. So it's been great to like start out that way. And then I think just for like future. I really do want an aura ring. Again. I love that Scott has all these fun things for Being a pilot, I think Kyle Hayes camp posted something earlier in the week and was like, I'm getting a new ordering. And I'm like, Yeah, my husband's getting a free Orrery, and I want it and he doesn't even meet want it. So that's what I want it for. I want to see, like, in different phases of my cycles, my female cycle, like, where is my heart rate different? And exactly, again, kind of what Liz was talking about, like temperature, all that kind of stuff, I think it would be really cool to like, monitor that. And I mean, I've worn my watch for sleeping. I don't know, Apple Watch. And sleep tracking is not the best, I will say that it's okay. Yeah, it's gotten better. Because they have their own way of tracking it. Now, you used to have to like download an app. And it wasn't very, I don't know, it wasn't great. But now they have their own tracking. It's okay. It's my ultimate takeaway on that. Alright, so I'm all things apple.

Kyle Shrum 30:57
So I think the first thing to say about wearables is, it's only helpful if you use the data, like, if, if you're just using a wearable just for the sake of using it like and you're not, you're not looking at the data and using it to make changes or using it to actually track you know, your progress and things like that, don't don't go get a wearable just because it's a, you know, it's like I said earlier, like avoid the shiny object thing, like, don't go get one just for the sake of having one, you know, I mean, and I also think it depends on what you want to do with it, you know, what I mean? Some people are just starting out, and they don't, they don't need to go get, you know, the things that we use, you know, I mean, because we do it all the time. And it's, you know, our profession, and but it's also just, it's a habit, for us, it's something that we do all the time, and we want to dive deep into data and stuff like that. Some people are just getting started, maybe you just need a step tracker, you know, I mean, maybe that's what you need to start with, you know, and that can be a habit that you start and then you kind of level up from there, you know, what I mean? And, you know, some trackers are, are good at that. And sometimes it's not, maybe it's just a, a number that you hit, and it's really just to build a habit, you know what I mean? But, if you're not going to be using the data, don't, don't, don't go get one, you know, I mean, don't use one, and this kind of, I guess, different from everybody else. But like, if you're not going to use the data, then then don't go get one, you don't need one, it's kind of like what we already said, too, it's like, you know, people for 1000s of years have monitored themselves, you know, without, without technology, you know, like, you can just, you can be intuitive about it, and just pay attention to how your body's feeling and how it's acting and things like that. And you can make your own decisions without wearables, if you want, you don't have to go get them. But if you want, you know, to go deeper and actually have measurable, you know, metrics that you can look at, and things like that, then then go for the wearables, and I think I think they're, they're a very helpful tool if you use them for what they're designed to do. And if not, you're just wasting a lot of money. But I have the polar Vantage V to watch and HTN chest strap that goes with it. And found the the chest strap to be more accurate. As far as the, the heart rate dragon and I think I don't think that's just for polar, I think it's just in general, I think a chest strap is going to be more accurate than, than a watch measuring at your wrist. And so that that's what I use, and I use it same stuff that that Joe and Ashley said, you know, for the the in workout metrics, where I can kind of look at that and see how things are things are progressing. Because it's not just for me about it's not just about like, did I lift more on the bar this week than I did last week, because we've talked in the past about day to day and week to week that can change it doesn't mean that you're getting weaker, or you're getting stronger, it just means that you know, your your body goes through through different phases. So, you know, if I can look at metrics and see well, I felt this way about the training session but the metrics say this about the training session and then that can that can help me just kind of have have the proper mindset around the the session and then the sleep tracking as well as sleep tracking is very important to me of just trying to make sure that I'm recovering properly and, and things like that. So but that's what I use and you know, just I won't I won't echo you know what Joe and I actually have said because I agree and that's the reason that I use and that's why I leveled up from what I was using what I was using just wasn't doing for me what I needed it to do you know and and so especially with all the energy system training and stuff like that, I needed a more accurate depiction of where I was as far as energy systems go so

Unknown Speaker 34:32
I think that you were talking about steps because you haven't said that at first Yeah, yeah.

Kyle Shrum 34:37
I feel like that's basically what all a Fitbit is good for like to track your steps. Okay, cool. You know, that's pretty much it but even with a Fitbit I think it's kind of a fancy step tracker like if all you're going to do is track steps there's you know, cheaper ways to do that and to build that habit than getting a Fitbit I don't really think a Fitbit is

Jerred Moon 34:58
like worth it for dollar pedometer You can get a CVS, yeah.

Kyle Shrum 35:01
Yeah, just put it on your shoe and you're good. But anyway, but then you step up from there and you know, maybe just bypass Fitbit altogether. Anyway,

Jerred Moon 35:11
I love that you're throwing shade on Fitbit now.

Kyle Shrum 35:14
I started based on my, based on my experience, like other people may have a great experience with Fitbit. I didn't. Okay, so Okay, Fitbit sucks, sorry. Throwing it, throwing it into the best. Go ahead, your your turn.

Jerred Moon 35:29
Okay. So I've been into this for a long time, I feel like Joe and I were like the first two people to buy a whoop. And we were like in very early with whoop,

Unknown Speaker 35:41
like grandfathered in the old

Joe Courtney 35:43
system. Right? We still are I just choose not to choose

Jerred Moon 35:47
not to buy it. Like, just because I actually don't think that they have the best system. And I could talk about that. I feel like whoop is winning the marketing battle. They have Patrick mahomes. I mean, you probably named like 15 other professional athletes. I see people. I just like notice it now. Like they did like some replay. I think for baseball, like I was I was watching a game and like I could tell the dude how to whoop on. I was at my daughter's dance recital last night and some dude walked past me he's wearing a whoop. I mean, no, I'm glad that he is he just didn't look like he was a serious athlete. In. And that's my true thought on the whoop is I think that it's very beneficial for very elite athletes. And it's not because of the metrics they're tracking. It's just because of the the demand. Like one metric i I'm starting to put a lot less stock in, I initially thought it was promising or cool. And that is heart rate variability. I don't actually think if you're training one time a day, four to six times per week, heart rate variability is very helpful at all. And like Joe said, if you need if you need a wearable, to show you that drinking six beers before you go to bed, is going to jack with your heart rate and heart rate variability. I could also come to your house and slap you upside the face and say no crap. You know, like, we could do either one, if you want, like you could pay a couple 100 bucks in the monthly fee for them to tell you or I could just come slap you and tell you, that's probably a bad idea. Either one, they cost the same. So anyway, heart rate variability, not a very promising metric. I know some people might disagree with that. And so the main reason I moved away from whoop is I feel like I don't know what their our algorithm is. They don't share it. But they were putting so much stock and not heart rate variability. And I just didn't agree with that. And that may have changed, the algorithm could have changed. But I like I said, if for all the CrossFit athletes are putting it on for Patrick mahomes All those that's where I think it matters. I think if you have a very suppressed heart rate variability, and you're training for hours per day, or multiple training sessions, you want to know that because they're not getting into situations when where they're like, Oh, I drink too many beers too many nights in a row. You know, I highly doubt that's Patrick mahomes problem, he probably actually runs into, yeah, I probably I may have trained too much my heart rate variability is suppressed. I've been doing too much I'm a little too stressed out. In cases like his I think it's very important. If your life's pretty stable, you have training once a day, I don't think your your heart rate variability is going to get super suppressed from your daily training. It could maybe from stressful factors, even though I've been through some really stressful time periods in my life to where the whoop didn't even pick that shit up. I'm like, Okay, I don't, whatever, you know, like, well, I don't know what this is useful for if you can't even pick up, you know, normal life stressors. So I really didn't think Heart Rate Variability was useful. So that's a lot of stuff to say I don't trust heart rate variability. I'm talking more about metrics here. And then I'll get to kind of my wearable. So heart rate is at the top of my list, something that tracks heart rate accurately. I've had a lot of wearables. And I personally think if you don't want to wear a chest strap, the Apple Watch is the best, it has the best on wrist heart rate monitor out there. Because I have a Garmin it doesn't do it or just started daily tracking, I'm sure I don't know much about the polar. But it wouldn't matter if I wore chest strap or not. Apple just always knew that my heart rate was accurately on my wrist. So I did a good job there. So heart rate, something like a track that and maybe something that can track that continue continuously would be something I'm looking for. I think that we kind of talked about it. body temperature is something that's really awesome to track. I think it's more important than heart rate variability. So if you have a any kind of wearable that can track your body temperature, especially with things like COVID or you know, any kind of illness it doesn't have to be COVID like flu or cold. Tracking your body temperature might be an indicator before Heart Rate Variability good heart rate variability might pop up once you're sick and you're like yeah, no crap, like I know, but your your body temperature rising slightly could be an indicator that sickness is coming probably way before Heart Rate Variability was So I think that's cool sleep tracking, actually kind of talked about it in general see tracking stuff, or, uh, supposed to be the best. But still, I mean, I had some problems with aura when I was wearing it. Like, it'd be like, you slept five hours last night, like while I was in bed nine, and I wasn't awake at any point, you know, during that. So maybe Emily is moving around, maybe he's moving around. So sometimes I just wouldn't agree with it. I didn't know if it's accurate or not. So I even had some trouble with aura. And then, yeah, I think, let's see, what's the other one. I think a lot of wearables are doing this now, breath rate and pulse oximeter, I think that's really cool that they're doing Garmin does both of these are mine does.

So it it checks breath rate and pulse ox, I think that the Apple Watch does this. And I think the pulse ox was like a new thing for Apple two recently. So being able to see those things, seeing your breath rate, I think those things are cool to know, you can even look, if you're feeling more stressed out. And you can kind of look at it as continuous breath rate tracking, you're like, Yeah, I'm breathing 18 times per minute. And I should be, you know, closer to like 10 or 11 times per minute, you know, you can know that you need to control that and do something about it. So those are the metrics I'm looking for. Now. If I'm getting a new wearable, I want it really good heart rate tracking, heart rate, variability, whatever. I don't care that much about breath rate, pulse ox body temperature, sleep tracking, the things that I think are really interesting and can go a long way. But I am a lot more like Joe these days of I'm more interested in my in workout data and helping me there. That's why whoop and aura are almost automatically out the window for me. Whoop is trying to get you to embrace their weakness, which is no screen. They're like, yeah, no distractions when you're working out, use the whoop. I've seen their marketing campaigns. But it's like, no, no, like, I'm not not checking my text messages, I want to see my heart rate. And for me to see my heart rate with your device, I have to pull up my phone, which is more distracting than looking at my watch, that would just have my heart rate displayed. So sorry, whoopee tried, you need to add a screen if you want to truly be a competitor at the in workout, training session thing. And same with aura. I think unfortunately, these things not having a screen are hurtful if you want to pursue anything because I do the same thing. Like for the Garmin, like I'll run if it's a zone to run, I'll run but it has like a you can put heartrate alerts, this is pretty common in almost any heart rate tracker, and then I'm not going to keep looking at it, it'll just tell me if I get above zone two or below zone two. But what I'm trying to do is maintain zone two without ever having to look and if I hear a beep or whatever it's like, okay, what happened, you know, and so I'll try and control it from there. So that's, that's everything I do. The reason I stick with Garmin, I actually think it's doing everything pretty well. Like I give it like a solid like 92% You know, a good a, it doesn't do everything, but none of them do. But Garmins body battery to me is far superior to whoops, an apple recovery score. So body. Yeah, so you wake up, you wake up in the morning and whoops, like your 54% Yeah, I feel perfect we're talking about but I feel like Garmin, whatever they do with their body battery, which is a similar has to do with like, how much you rested has your heart rate has to do heart rate variability, but it just seems to be the most accurate for for me personally. So that's why I stick with Garmin, I think that they have that figured out there in Workout Tracking is like it's untouched, you know, and so I think that's why I stick with Garmin. I Apple's my my close. Second is what I always say just because the only thing I like about Apple really, when it comes down to it is how it looks for me personally, this is for me, I don't want a square watch. I don't know about that. I like circle watches. If they make a circle Apple Watch, I'll be back on the pride back in Apple market. This Come on guys, I know they are always trying to be different. But like, just give me a circle. Give me seven classic right yourself.

Ashley Hicks 43:55
For Garmin, I know Scott's Garmin I don't know if he has a six and a five. But again, they got a free Garmin for you know being piloted. Um, it lasts for his last for three, four days or something before he has to charge it. For me I have to charge mine every single day like Apple battery is

Joe Courtney 44:12
10 days.

Ashley Hicks 44:14
Well, maybe 10 Maybe it's more I don't know, I just know that I see him charge his watch way less than he's, you know, he's just has it on all day long, kind of

Kyle Shrum 44:21
know, for months, it depends on what you're like, if you're doing like the continuous heart rate tracking or something like that. Or if you have like, continuous GPS on or something like that, then that's gonna wear the run the battery down further in that. So that's like, you can set things to where it's not, it's not using up as much better. So you have like a range. Like if you have everything tracking all the time. That's like the low end of the range versus, you know, you you can turn all that stuff off and get like seven to 10 days out of a charge or something like that. So

Jerred Moon 44:51
cool. Yeah, I think mine last a very long time, but that's because they leave it in airplane mode almost all the time. Yeah, it's It's an airplane mode all the time constantly, other than when I work out, I'll move it out of airplane mode. So it can communicate with like my, my heart rate monitor, and then I'll put it back in airplane mode. And that's the first thing I do when I get these watches. I turn off everything like you don't, you're not allowed to notify me disconnect from text messages. I don't want to know anything that you're talking about. I'll use you when I need you. That's also how I feel about phones. You don't tell me I'll come look at you. I'm in charge of the phone, not the other way around it. So that's how I just look at all wearables. So yeah, I leave mine in airplane mode all the time, which I think conserves a lot of the battery. But that's I don't know, I think that's about it for wearables. I think that we should move the future of fitness tech probably the next week. Because if we want to keep everything within our normal podcasting time, I think covering the workout and everything else would be and I don't want to I don't want to not give that conversation the credit that it's due. So you have to

Kyle Shrum 45:58
wait until say my strong opinions

Joe Courtney 46:00
like Christmas movies are going to be pushed back.

Jerred Moon 46:04
Yeah, well, come on. Bonus with how things are playing here for us like recording as much as we need to, to like actually be able to take the holidays off. We'll end up talking about Christmas movies and tripping old people in February of next year. Yeah. So just in case you guys don't know our Christmas movies. Yeah, but so we'll skip that. So next week, you will hear us talk about the future fitness in technology, peloton, mirror, things like that, what our thoughts are on on all that. So come back next week for that. But that's everything we have anything else on wearables knowing that we're not gonna don't jump into the second part of the topic today, you guys have any last

Joe Courtney 46:46
whichever one is has the best number one feature for you. So like whatever you're looking for most if you want sleep, go with like oil or the aura that's dedicated dark sleep you want running and pacing and that go with the Garmin or polar because their GPS and heart rate tracking for that is really good if you want a smartwatch with you know, some bells and whistles go with Apple. So it depends on what you want. There's no one greater Washington the other, it's just what's most important to you list them out in order and then do the walk will basically be chosen for you.

Jerred Moon 47:18
Yeah, if I had to like break them all down of ones I've used, I feel like Garmin Apple are the most versatile. But then they also have like their pros and cons like Apple favorites heavily towards just also your life, kind of like Ashley talked about, like there's a lot of other things and they want that to be a lot of the reason why people buy an Apple Watch not just the fitness tracking, you know, we're looking at it from this one lens of fitness tracking. And that's to them. That's just an element of what this watch does. And so Garmin on the other hand is very versatile, but it does, in my opinion gear or slant heavily towards endurance athletes. Like it's it's great at like run cadence and run tracking and GPS with riding a bike and all that kind of stuff. But the second you get into like, doing something a little bit more stationary. It's it'll tell you basic heart rate metrics, but it can't do much else. But those those two are very, very, very versatile watches. Whoop, I already said I think is way more for people who train train too much. If you listen to our Goldilocks episode, for the people who train way too much, the whoop will be great for you and aura. I'm actually a huge fan of aura, it just doesn't work for me that well. I feel like aura is a great human tracker. Like I just feel like people in general, you don't need to be a fitness enthusiast. Like aura is just great, like all the things that they're tracking. And they're adding new stuff in this new version they have from what I've seen, you know, continuous heart rate tracking activity tracking things that they didn't have before. But I think if you're just looking for general health, something that you can wear that's not very invasive, and you could still have your own type of watch if you're more into fashion or whatever like an aura ring is, is, is great. So it attracts a lot of stuff. Emily was interested in one as well. Possible Christmas present. We'll see. But yeah, I think I think aura is great. That's kind of my how I break down those categories. Cool. Let's get into the workout who's got it ready for briefing?

Unknown Speaker 49:16
Lunch? All right, it's conditioned me to the grave.

Kyle Shrum 49:23
There we go.

Jerred Moon 49:24
I just completely wouldn't do it. I know that for some reason, grief in the workouts become like a chore on the podcast and nobody wants to do really, really odd.

Joe Courtney 49:37
Just the machines, not the without. But okay.

Ashley Hicks 49:40
I mean, so the workout with machines is 100 Calorie row 100 Calorie or 900 double unders run one mile. And then you go to 75 with every single thing I just said run a mile 50 run a mile 25 And then there are substitutions if you do not have machines but for some reason, she doesn't want me to talk about them

Joe Courtney 50:03
at all on screen. It's a lot to list. It's

Unknown Speaker 50:05
just hard. Yeah, it's like, anyways, it's for those of us who aren't auditory.

Kyle Shrum 50:10
So go watch it. Go watch the YouTube video.

Unknown Speaker 50:12
Okay, every man listening to this anyway,

Unknown Speaker 50:17
shots fire.

Ashley Hicks 50:20
Um, I guess my thing for this is if you have the equipment to do this, just do it. Like, it sucks. It's gonna suck. I remember the first time I did it with machines. I mean, I was fairly fit and I could not reach the isn't there a time cap with this as well? Isn't it like you have two minutes? Yeah, you have to finish within the hour. And I could not I time kept. And I was I remember I was just quite pissed about that. But so get it done it, it takes a lot longer than what you think it's gonna take. Especially with a mile runs in between like those are good job, German those. But yeah, if you got machines do it. If you don't, there are some good movements too. But know that you're probably going to blow a lot faster through it then with the machines. So if you're looking, if you do have it, and you're looking to meet yourself, just do it with machines.

Jerred Moon 51:21
And who's next? Yeah, so my idea of this workout cow, you can just if you want to head out. Alright, so, my

Kyle Shrum 51:33
buddy, that's what we do. Yeah. Sorry.

Jerred Moon 51:36
My, my thoughts on this one, I thought you didn't want to go again. Anyway, my thoughts on this one, I would really like to challenge people to the zone two version of this workout. Which it would would just be like how we do murder, like Murph, but it's zone two, Murph. And so this would be zone two conditioned me to the grave. I actually want to challenge myself to do this. I would love to, you know, if I were to do like a weekly challenge, I would love to do conditioning to the grave every Saturday, holding myself to zone two and see how much progress I can make over a year with doing it weekly? I don't know, maybe I would, because I don't think I would ever realistically hit get all of that done in 60 minutes in Zone Two, I don't know if that's possible. For me. Maybe some like really elite endurance athlete could do that. But not me. And so I maybe I would extend that to like a 90 minute time cap, I'd have to do the first time and see if like where I think it's feasible to finish. But that's something I want to do. And so if anyone wants to try the zone, two version of that, I just think it'd be be cool. Girlfriend. Yeah, it's a great, great one for you. Now, as far as actually doing this, try with the machines. And like Ashley said, like, do you have to go to a friend's gym or whatever, like, do it because we do have the sub version, but you are going to finish it much faster, and you're not gonna feel as much pain. And I want those things for you. I want to be longer and I wanted to hurt more. Okay, so definitely try conditioning to the grave. I always mentioned the pacing card, which we have in the group. So if you need the pacing card, we have that search conditioning to the grave in the Facebook group, and you'll find that conditioning pacing card that we have. But I don't have a lot of tips for this one. Because for me, other than the pacing card, you have to just move you have to move your ass like that's, that's it, like every time I finished it, you just have to move your ass, you just have to keep going. And you can't really get comfortable at any point. From a mental standpoint of this workout. It beats you down in the beginning because you you're gonna chew up so much time between the first 100 and the first 75 that you're gonna be like, not doable. And so you as the second that gets into your brain, you're gonna be like, start shutting it down. I'm not gonna try as hard, whatever, I'll just move for an hour. But the end is so much less. Like it finishes so fast, you can finish it so fast at the end. So don't don't let this reverse pyramid trick you. You know, don't let it get you down. Mentally, too. So keep pushing through and try harder as it gets the as the work gets shorter, but that's all I have Joe.

Joe Courtney 54:19
So for the substitutes without machines, you can do a one to one so we don't have like one machine. You don't just scrap the whole workout. You can do a one to one sub so you don't rower do stuff for that or Aerodyne vice versa. So pretty much it's kind of set for anybody for that first run. I don't know. I don't remember what really we do for one mile. Mile sub for the run.

Jerred Moon 54:41
I think it is tuck jumps for 15 minutes. All right, there we go. Okay, no,

Joe Courtney 54:48
like that is not sure. They will find a way to run like maybe I can.

Jerred Moon 54:53
I think that's what you need to do with like it when someone says I can't run you make the sub so much worse. They're like fine, I'll run Now,

Joe Courtney 55:00
yeah, like 10 minutes of burpees. Well,

Unknown Speaker 55:05
okay, next and I'll freeze.

Joe Courtney 55:08
Yeah, yeah. Another meet yourself. Yeah. So yeah, there really isn't that much for tips, like, some of the tips might be with the with the without machines like step ups, make sure your boxes too high. That's gonna eat up a lot of time, but also just so you're working the right the right sort of muscle that you're doing. And then double unders double for singles. And, yeah, I gave this is definitely one you just have to have to move and kind of find your pace and stick with that with you know, if it is zone two, you know, I, I would try and keep yourself under 80% of your heart rate in the beginning, like maybe the first 100 Because you still got the 75 to go. And then you can increase your pace from there. But once you're once you're up in the redline area, you're just gonna be you're just gonna be die in person. So definitely one that you need to somewhat pace out, but still be aggressive in your pace. All right, Kyle. Martin, no. Okay.

Kyle Shrum 56:11
No, I'm just kidding. That's, and that sounds that I'm going to echo what Jared said, which was, how go faster at the end. For me during this workout the hardest, the hardest portion is the 75. That's because the 100 It's like, alright, it's 100. But it's like, it's the beginning of the workout, right. And so by the time you get through all those hundreds, and that first mile, you are nice and warm. But you're also like, I mean, you're you're you're definitely moving, you're out breath, all those kinds of things, unless you're doing the zone too. And then then you get to that 75 minutes. 75 is, it's, it's gonna feel like the 100, it's gonna feel like you're doing 100 Again, but then you get through that, and then the 50 go faster, go a little bit faster in the 50. Because there's a noticeable difference, at least for me, there's a notable noticeable difference between a 75 and a 50. And then there's definitely a noticeable difference with the 25. It's just like for the 25 Just go pedal to the metal just go like everything else you've got just just give it but to me the hardest is, is that section of 75. And so you get through that set, though, 75. It's just like Jared said to me, that's, that's the real meat yourself part for me, because it feels like another 100 And then the 50 and the 25, it's just it, there's a noticeable difference for each one of those. So I would just say, increase your pay, get through the 100, at a good clip, get to the 75 That's that maybe if you're like me, that will be your meet yourself moment of like, am I going to quit or not, and don't and then get to that 75 And then just Just bear down for the 50 and the 25. And, and I would just say as far as like music or whatever, if you're listening to something like, listen to something that gets you in a rhythm, something that you can, you can just put your head down and you can just move, you can just move through it. And it's not something that's gonna distract you pull you off one way, or pull you off another way, it's not going to bore you, or anything like that. It's something that you can listen to that almost just kind of like blends into everything. And you just get in this this flow state and just move through everything. And so that's what I would say. Yeah, those are my tips.

Jerred Moon 58:13
Yeah, and I like to bring this up, ah, tennis workout comes out, I almost died doing this one, I actually went to the emergency room after I shouldn't be to the grave. So keep that in mind. And the what happened to me is what I've learned, this has been a big life lesson for me, I would say over the last two years, is my level of intensity. And I don't just mean heart rate intensity. I mean, in life, my level of intensity, can cost me a great deal. If I do not put it under control. I am capable of pushing myself to pretty ridiculous levels, which I thought was just like, okay, yeah, we're gonna push ourselves hard here. But it actually has a huge negative consequence. And this is a in a lot of different areas of my life. So don't always offer the intensity. We've talked about this a lot. But for what happened to me with this one is I was going I wanted a PR and the only PR coming out of this condition me of the grave was basically to spend my life in zone four and really zone five for the entire workout until it was done. And that's what I did. I think I was mainly in zone five and zone four. I didn't really touch the other zones. I went out hot, and I ended up with some irregular heartbeats after the fact. And I'm telling everyone this because and that's why I end up going to the emergency room. I just want to get checked out. I had this happen one other time, and that was when I did the untrained marathon. I ended up with some irregular heartbeats there. But I didn't go to the emergency room because I was younger and Dumber. And so anyway, I went got checked out everything was fine. There were no ultimate problems. I didn't have any actual like real issue. The doctors concluded exactly what you would think I push myself too hard for too long. And I should probably cool it. That's what I mentioned the zone two version of this. Definitely take that into account if you're going, you want to go hard but like it really should be a zone three to zone four effort not a zone four to zone five effort. Because I've done the workout since then it's not like I gained a phobia of this workout. I know exactly what I did wrong, and I just won't do it again. And I've done it since so anyway, just don't push yourself that hard. And you'll be fine. It's not like a dangerous workout unless you're an idiot. So which I'm calling myself an idiot there. So anyway, that's all I only got to end on that one.

Joe Courtney 1:00:37
Specific other tips be sure to ask if you're in the group, be sure to ask and tag Jason wood because he did this. She does work out a lot and he loves being tagged just as much as I do. And he likes to tell people to tag me and stuff. So yeah, Jason wood. He's got all the great conditioning to the grave kids.

Jerred Moon 1:00:54
Who is a lifer? Now,

Joe Courtney 1:00:55
I feel like he's there for like, forever.

Jerred Moon 1:00:59
We should we should read all the lifers names at the beginning of the podcast. I think I'm gonna just do that until we read them all. One at a time.

Joe Courtney 1:01:10
Well, Jason was the first one week Jason would

Jerred Moon 1:01:14
one of our lifetime garage gym athlete, he he messaged me, he sent me an email after he got it was like a screenshot or something like that. I forgot what he said something like I think I think things are getting serious or something like that. Pretty funny. That's funny, bro. But that's it. That's it for this one. If anybody has any questions about our programming or new cycles we have coming up, now's the time to ask. We're getting into where we're going to be starting new cycles in 2022. A lot more information coming your way about those how to get involved. And if you want to get involved if you haven't been involved in the training and you're listening to podcasts or you have a friend or family member who wants to get involved, go to garage gym Sign up for a 14 day free trial. And we will show you what we're all about and for all the athletes who are part of our training. Thank you so much for being part of the community for participating getting those green dots and being awesome. And for my weekly reminder, if you don't feel comfort, comfort will kill you

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