Self Determination Theory in Training

Welcome to the Garage Gym Athlete Podcast! In this episode, Jerred Moon and Dave Paczkowski dive deep into one of the biggest questions in fitness: What makes people actually stick with training long-term?

They unpack a recent 2025 study on barbell-based resistance training, explore the psychology behind motivation, and explain how performance-driven goals—not aesthetics—are the key to consistency.

Why We Quit (And How to Fix It)

The study looked at how barbell strength training affected emotional responses and long-term exercise adherence in recreationally active adults. The findings? Those who got stronger felt better about themselves—and were far more likely to continue training.

It all ties into self-determination theory, a framework based on:

• Autonomy (you choose your training)

• Competence (you feel like you're getting better)

• Relatedness (you're connected to others)

The researchers found that:

• Lifting heavier led to higher intrinsic motivation

• Harder workouts (with progress) led to more positive emotions

• Challenging training increased desire to continue

Progress Feeds Motivation

Jerred and Dave break down why progress—especially in strength training—is addictively motivating. Hitting new numbers gives you a tangible sense of accomplishment, which reinforces your desire to keep showing up.

“If you’re not getting better at something, it’s hard to stay motivated. But if you are—even just by a rep or two—you keep coming back.”

That’s the beauty of performance-based training: it fuels your inner drive better than chasing a number on the scale.

Why Aesthetic Goals Fall Flat

Both coaches have seen it time and time again: people who train solely for weight loss tend to burn out or quit. Why? Because there’s no joy in the process—and the goal is often tied to external validation.

But when people train for performance, they find purpose in the daily grind. Whether it’s shaving time off a 5K, hitting 10 pull-ups, or PR’ing a deadlift, these goals have a lasting psychological impact.

How to Stay in the Game

Whether you’re brand new to lifting or a veteran trying to stay sharp, here’s what the hosts recommend:

1. Pick a performance metric
   (Run time, strength goal, Murph time—anything with progress.)

2. Make it hard enough to matter
   (Challenge creates meaning. Don’t coast.)

3. Don’t obsess over perfection
   (The best program is the one you stick with.)

4. If you want fat loss, chase performance anyway
   (The aesthetics will follow.)

Final Takeaway: Don’t Chase Fat Loss. Chase Better.

The science is clear—and the experience of thousands of Garage Gym Athletes backs it up: performance goals make training stick. It’s not about chasing aesthetics, it’s about building confidence, competence, and long-term grit.

So if you’re struggling with motivation or stuck in a rut, don’t ask how do I lose 10 pounds? Instead, ask how can I get stronger, faster, or better today?

Garage Gym Athlete Workout of the Week

Podcast Transcript

Jerred: [00:00:00] Getting right into the podcast. What's up, Dave? [00:00:05] Jared excited to be on. Yeah, man, let's do it. Know Joe today, he's off traversing the globe [00:00:10] as he does. That's what Joe spends most of his time doing. I would have to, I would have to say, [00:00:15] but when you're in Europe, you kind of have to, it's like a once in a lifetime [00:00:20] opportunity.

I mean, you can always go back to Europe, but he actually lives in Europe and I don't know if he'll get that opportunity or [00:00:25] again, or not so. Pretty cool overall. Yeah.

Dave: Good for him.

Jerred: Uh, alright, we're gonna get into a [00:00:30] study today and I mentioned on the podcast we were gonna talk, start talking about, uh, [00:00:35] the self-determination theory or I mentioned a few weeks ago, so let me pull up the name of [00:00:40] this one because it was done in 2025, which is interesting.

So it started to line up with [00:00:45] something I'm just like, naturally interested in, but also, you know, coming up in, [00:00:50] in mainstream research. It's effective responses to barbell based [00:00:55] resistance training in a 16 week barbell based strength training program for [00:01:00] recreationally active adults. Do you think that this was a [00:01:05] barbell based strength training program?

I just think it's funny that they put it in there twice, [00:01:10] uh, in this study, but I,

Dave: I mean, I like the movements they chose, and at least the ones [00:01:15] they listed out, I, they didn't get too deep into how they actually set it up or anything, but,

Jerred: yeah. Well then I, I always [00:01:20] double check because a lot of these studies.

If it just says like, strength, [00:01:25] resistance or whatever, it's like, okay, you're doing Smith Machine. Where are you doing the Smith machine? And, uh, it was cool that it's actually [00:01:30] barbell stuff. Um, so what they did was they had, I [00:01:35] think it was 45 total people in the study. Uh, or no, 43 women, [00:01:40] eight men. So predominantly women in the study, but still, I think a, a [00:01:45] good showing of of men, which also another side note, this almost never happens [00:01:50] like this doesn't.

It's normally women are always, uh, underrepresented, [00:01:55] you know, in scientific literature. So I don't know if this is like a [00:02:00] purposeful step in the direction to get more women in studies. Um, I'm ultimately, like, [00:02:05] I, I think it's, it's great even for like what I take away as a man from this study. 'cause there's still [00:02:10] eight dudes in here, right?

So like, I, for me that that's enough. So anyway, they trained three [00:02:15] times per week, 16 weeks. Um, and then. The, what they were measuring [00:02:20] was a lot of, you know, it's kinda like a nutritional study where they're just kind of having to ask you questions, [00:02:25] but they examine the relationship between self-efficacy, intrinsic motivation, and [00:02:30] perceived exertion on the effective response or emotional feelings in which factors were [00:02:35] related to together to greater intention to exercise in the [00:02:40] future.

So that's the main thing that they were looking at. And so the hypothesis from the [00:02:45] authors of the study, they said. They hypothesized that training would elicit a [00:02:50] positive, effective response. Stronger individuals would exhibit greater self-efficacy in those [00:02:55] with high self-efficacy and intrinsic motivation would've a higher intention to exercise in [00:03:00] the future.

So that's, that's really everything that we're looking at. We're looking at [00:03:05] do does a certain type of fitness, there's a certain type of strength [00:03:10] training. Elicits some sort of positive response in which you want to keep going, you wanna keep doing it, [00:03:15] and you want to keep doing it into the future. And I think that that's the question we're all trying to answer, [00:03:20] uh, as coaches, because it can be hard sometimes to get people to stick to it.

If you're listening to this [00:03:25] podcast, you might be one of those people who have zero issues with adherence, [00:03:30] uh, to sticking to a program and. When you are listening to a podcast like this, my [00:03:35] only advice to you is share it. Not even necessarily share this [00:03:40] podcast, podcast episode. Share this information, right, share this information with [00:03:45] people who are struggling, who can't stick with it, so on and so forth.[00:03:50]

But going back to the study, as you can tell, I'm speaking very positively of it, is because ultimately. [00:03:55] That was the outcome. The outcome was the fact that those who lifted more, [00:04:00] um, they had these better emotional feelings. They wanted to stick to exercise more. It was better [00:04:05] intrinsic motivator. Um, and it was more specific with like the deadlift in the back squat, like [00:04:10] these barbell movements that, you know, we have said are important forever.

[00:04:15] Uh, but overall they did hang clean power, clean push, press, snatch, split jerk deadlift, front squat, bench [00:04:20] press, split squat. He bar deadlift. Um, a lot of thing a lot. [00:04:25] Things to pick out there, but, uh, I'll dive into some like, nuances of it. But overall, I think it's pretty [00:04:30] interesting. Dave, what were your initial thoughts on this study?

Dave: Yeah, I mean, I, I love [00:04:35] the, the barbell aspect of it too, and I, I like how, you know, the people that [00:04:40] got stronger had more motivation. Like that's, that's something that you want your program to [00:04:45] see positive changes and if, and I've seen that, I know we've seen that anecdotally too over the [00:04:50] years of people that.

Like, and especially women, it's cool that it's, you know, it highlights women in there [00:04:55] too, is like, I know with, with women, they're like, once they start lifting heavy, [00:05:00] there's something not even just like addictive to that, but they're like, wow, like I never thought I could even pick up [00:05:05] a 95 pound barbell.

And now I'm like repping out 1 35 with a plate on each side. And like, [00:05:10] there's just something encouraging about that once you start expressing some of that strength. And of [00:05:15] course there's body composition. All the like hormonal and feel good stuff that comes with it. [00:05:20] But I also, it was interesting how, you know, they talked about like easier [00:05:25] sessions could make you feel better and even more positive in the short term, but that acute effect doesn't [00:05:30] necessarily mean better long-term compliance where there has to be a certain level of.

[00:05:35] Difficulty and challenge to get that, that long-term, long-term compliance. And that's the, so that's the interesting blend of [00:05:40] people don't, especially people that are new to working out. Like it's not fun to have your legs burning or your [00:05:45] lungs on fire when you're doing a workout. People are like, why do people enjoy this?

But that's, there's a certain [00:05:50] level of that that you need to get to, to, uh, be able to. You know, sustain it, [00:05:55] sustain it long term. And that, that's the interesting blend I think of how do we not make it so uncomfortable? 'cause no one just [00:06:00] wants to go like do 800 meter repeats all day and like, oh yeah, I'm gonna do this forever.

This is, this is [00:06:05] fun. But at the same time, there's gotta be that, that level of challenge, but also, um, a level of [00:06:10] enjoyment too within it.

Jerred: Yeah. And, and I talked about this when I did my brief overview of the self-determination [00:06:15] theory, right? Autonomy, competence, and relatedness. So. We can skip related relatedness [00:06:20] now for, for this podcast, but it's ultimately like, you know, doing things with other people, [00:06:25] uh, you know, being able to connect with other groups of people.

But this autonomy and competence I think is hit [00:06:30] really strongly in this study. And so that competence is [00:06:35] what are you getting better at? And that's what I like to ask people. All the, all the, all the time. What are you [00:06:40] getting better at right now? A lot of people don't have an answer to that question many times, [00:06:45] and you can be getting better at in multiple different areas of your life, but if you don't feel like you're progressing, [00:06:50] like you said, easy training sessions, it's that some people don't have problems with [00:06:55] consistency, but they're not pushing themselves at all.

And so it's, they don't see the results that they should, or, you [00:07:00] know, whatever the reason. Maybe they're only exercising to avoid a negative [00:07:05] thing, like maybe a health outcome or a weight gain or something like that, as opposed [00:07:10] to. Actually really having fun with it and, and getting better. So that's something that I think that you have [00:07:15] to answer, um, within this study because the, in my [00:07:20] experience here, just kinda moving away from the study is that stuff is incredibly motivating and it [00:07:25] can be for a really long time.

But you know, when you get where, [00:07:30] where I'm at now where I'm like, well, I'm not sure if I'll pr again. It's not that I [00:07:35] can't. Like, I think I'm, it's not like I'm 67 years old and I'm like, no, those days are behind me. [00:07:40] It's more like, do I want to, is is more of the, the question that [00:07:45] I, I sit with now. And so it's like, well, does, does, this study is a study like a wash [00:07:50] and I can't go lift heavier all the time and like be chasing numbers.

And I don't think that, that, that's [00:07:55] necessarily what the study is saying. I don't think that it has to be a heavy deadlift or a heavy back squat. [00:08:00] Um, I think it has to go back to like what you're saying is like it needs to be [00:08:05] hard. There needs to be a challenge. You need to be making progress in that thing.[00:08:10]

Whether that's like, Hey, I did 20 pull-ups in one set this week. [00:08:15] Let's see if I can do 21 next week or 22. It's just that how are we getting better? How [00:08:20] do we, how, how are we getting better? And then you really, really check that, like autonomy [00:08:25] or, or that, uh, competence piece. But then you also need to check that autonomy piece, which [00:08:30] is also what I'm talking about.

There is. If you don't want to do the heavy barbell back squat, because this [00:08:35] study studies, and this is how sometimes people take science, they don't, they don't take the, the intent [00:08:40] of the study. They're like, Nope, it's, it's heavy barbell back squats. It's like, [00:08:45] and, and not cleans, not power cleans. 'cause they said it in the study.

It's like, no, [00:08:50] these people didn't like cleans. Because for you and I, maybe we've done so much [00:08:55] deadlifting and, and uh, you know, back squatting maybe if we really wanted to [00:09:00] master. Uh, a squat clean or a clean and jerk or whatever, maybe that would be [00:09:05] like incredible for us from like a enjoyment and competence [00:09:10] phase.

'cause we're like, you know, we've never truly mastered this lift. Let's go do that. Let's spend years doing it, see if we can get better at [00:09:15] it. So I also think it comes down to the, the individual, right? Because I don't think this study would be as applicable [00:09:20] for me where I'm at 20 years into training. Uh, but the idea, the intent of the study, I think very [00:09:25] much applies to me because it's just the self-determination theory at work.

Dave: Yeah, I face value for me [00:09:30] too. Like we're, I mean we're coaches in the health and fitness industry, it's, and the people that are usually [00:09:35] drawn to being coaches are those that just love working out and have no problem with it. You see these people that start [00:09:40] CrossFit gyms and different things just 'cause they love CrossFit and it's, uh, like that's not, the [00:09:45] consistency isn't the hard part, but.

I think for someone that isn't in that, it's, you know, [00:09:50] it's just really interesting I think highlighting some of the ways that, and you kind of touch on 'em, but it could be heavier [00:09:55] lifting, it could be a murf goal, it could be a running goal. It could be a [00:10:00] concurrent goal of like, I wanna lift this much and run this much.

It could be a body composition goal to [00:10:05] it. There could be a speed component, like there's so many different ways you can take your training. I think just highlighting that [00:10:10] for people to know. Like it could be heavy lifting, but there's, you could either. If you [00:10:15] wanna specialize more, which, you know, we're, we're not huge fans of like extreme specialization, but if you [00:10:20] enjoy, if you want to try and be the best Olympic lifter you can be and that excites you, like [00:10:25] you're gonna be healthier because of that, or if you want to be more general, you can, uh.

Kind of set goals in [00:10:30] multiple domains and then try and achieve those two. 'cause that's gonna set its own challenge without having to, [00:10:35] I'm the same way. I don't know, you know, in college football, squatting 500 pounds. I'm like, I don't know if I'm [00:10:40] getting, getting back to that. I may want to, but, uh, you're capable.

But finding different, I'm capable of finding [00:10:45] different ways to like stack goals together, that it still feels the same challenge as chasing a 500 pound. [00:10:50] Back squat on its own, doing that with a running goal and with different things, then it [00:10:55] becomes equally challenging. Although it's just a different goal that might just be better for where I'm at in the season of life.

Jerred: Well, you [00:11:00] know what's interesting about that too is like going back to uh, you know, you needing this [00:11:05] challenge, you need to get better at something. The 500 pound back squat, uh, if I had to [00:11:10] guess for either one of us isn't. That challenging from like a, it's not [00:11:15] intellectually challenging. It's like we just, we know, like we just have, like we know what we have to do and [00:11:20] it would just be time and like we'd probably do it slow and do it right to try and make sure that we didn't get [00:11:25] injured.

But ultimately there's not a massive challenge there because we just know what to [00:11:30] do. It's like, it's like going down the, the same road you've been down a hundred times. It's like there's no challenge to it. But [00:11:35] if you take me out of my small town, Texas and throw me in the middle of Atlanta [00:11:40] traffic, right?

I'm like. Looking everywhere, right? Like I'm like trying to figure it out. I don't know what exit to [00:11:45] take or how fast to, like, you're just looking into all these different things. So my point in saying that is like [00:11:50] a concurrent training goal where you're trying to have to master two things at once. It's like.

[00:11:55] Okay, this is a new challenge. This is new. Like I'm trying to get faster and I'm trying to get stronger at the [00:12:00] same time, which can butt heads, they can conflict, um, with like trying [00:12:05] to achieve them at the same time. So you have to be smarter about your training, smarter about your recovery. Um, it's something that's really [00:12:10] hard to get better at.

So part of me thinks that's why more advanced athletes go the concurrent training [00:12:15] route is because of not just the physical challenge, but the intellectual challenge. If you're trying to figure [00:12:20] out. Heart rate zones and programming and nutrition because it's a whole new ball game. It's like, it's like [00:12:25] reinventing yourself or rediscovering fitness at, you know, later, later in life or later in training.

Training [00:12:30] age.

Dave: Yeah. I think that's where if you're on the more advanced, like consistency's, no problem for me. [00:12:35] That's how you can, that's how you can raise your standard up a little bit to be like, here's how I'm gonna push myself. Now, if that's [00:12:40] not you, if you're hearing these things and you're like, man, I haven't been to the gym in six months, I'm just trying to get back into it.

[00:12:45] There's seasons of life where, yeah, just do three times a week and doing a basic like. Three [00:12:50] lift barbell program could be exactly what you need to get back. Get back into it.

Jerred: Yeah. Um, [00:12:55] you know, and, and it's just funny man, because I've been saying this forever, [00:13:00] uh, on the podcast and if you read through the website in any of our information, [00:13:05] um, for years, I mean over 10 years I've been saying Chase a performance goal.[00:13:10]

Chase a performance tool. And people were like, well, but I wanna lose 10 pounds. I'm like, okay, [00:13:15] let's, uh, let's try and get your mile time below eight minutes. You know, they're like, why? I said, I wanna lose 10 pounds. I'm like, [00:13:20] yeah, you did. But I said, let's get your mile time below eight minutes. Because I just know, and [00:13:25] having worked with people for so long, what this study is saying is true, and it's true, and it's played [00:13:30] out over and over again.

If you want to, uh, you know, if you [00:13:35] wanna lose 10 pounds, I, I don't know if I've ever truly met anyone. Who's like [00:13:40] been super motivated by weight loss and then like they, they [00:13:45] stuck with it. I don't think I've ever actually seen it. As sad as that might, may sound like I've seen a lot of [00:13:50] performance. People stick with things for very long periods of time.

People who got into performance, not just people who are [00:13:55] obsessed with it, but any person who I've ever talked to, seen [00:14:00] known who's been like, I'm here to lose 15 pounds. That's it. [00:14:05] You, they, they don't stick with it. And it, and it's just because they're going for the vanity metrics, right? [00:14:10] The, the things that, there's no intrinsic motivator.

It's an extrinsic motivator. And [00:14:15] so having to have those conversations, and I'd like to know that from your experience, like, 'cause we [00:14:20] both, we have a very similar mindset and in the fact that we don't want to just [00:14:25] talk to you about fitness. Right? Like, yes, this is our, this is our vessel, this is our [00:14:30] Trojan horse into getting into people's lives.

But ultimately, we want you to be better in a lot of [00:14:35] different areas. And we just think that this whole fitness side of what we're doing is a, is a, is a peak into it. [00:14:40] Uh, but you've worked with a lot of people, and I'm sure a lot of people come to you with like a specific weight loss goal or whatever. [00:14:45] How are you playing mental chess with them to try and be like, I know that's what you said, [00:14:50] but I know what you need.

So like how, how do you play that game as a coach? [00:14:55]

Dave: Yeah, it comes down to, I mean, questions are always the big thing. Like if you can [00:15:00] have, you know, in our, when we have the opportunity to have actual conversations with people, there's usually, there's usually [00:15:05] more behind that goal. And that's what, um, that's what getting to there is, I think speaking from [00:15:10] personal experience helps people relate to it too.

Because I've, and I started like [00:15:15] even in the football days, that was. My high school football days, like getting in the weight room was, it's [00:15:20] like you follow bodybuilding stuff. That's just what was around then. And that's like how me and a lot of my friends got into fitness. [00:15:25] So there's, there's always been that, you know, chasing the aesthetic component, even when you're playing football, [00:15:30] I mean, you're a high school and college dude, you're like, yeah, I wanna get strong, but like, I also wanna look

Jerred: Oh yeah, [00:15:35] look

Dave: Jack too.

So, and I've, uh, even, even over the past few years, like I, I went a little back, a [00:15:40] little more back into bodybuilding and like. Set some pretty aggressive like weight cutting [00:15:45] goals and those things. And I found the same thing. I'm like, I'm always more fulfilled when I'm chasing [00:15:50] performance because you lose this weight and it's like, okay, [00:15:55] well cool, I look maybe a little better, but now my view of myself is different.

And like, like [00:16:00] you said, people, even if they hit that goal, they're rarely like. I've never seen someone fulfilled of like, they [00:16:05] lost 10 pounds and they're like, that's it. Like, I made it my, that was it. That was my

Jerred: happiness unlock I was looking for in life. Um, my [00:16:10]

Dave: life is fulfilled. I'm no longer, you know, I'm no longer anxious or depressed or anything.

So [00:16:15] there's, there's always questions behind it, and that's, that's our job to lead. Or, you know, if you're [00:16:20] setting out to that goal, making sure, you know, I have really good reason of, of why you're doing it if you think [00:16:25] that's the answer too. You know, better you have heart disease in your family and you're trying to [00:16:30] lose weight to, to help that.

And that's linked to like, I wanna be around for [00:16:35] my kids and like, I can, I can see that I wanna be around for my kids and my grandkids. Like that's why, that's [00:16:40] where weight loss goals succeed versus right. Like, oh, I just wanna, I just wanna get shredded and lose some belly fat because I'm going to [00:16:45] the beach later this year.

And, and that's where, um, the mental, the mental chest comes in of [00:16:50] just asking questions and, and setting. We can set the weight loss goals, but then I always. [00:16:55] We're always setting performance goals with it too. It's like, okay, our, our big, your main one thing may be [00:17:00] like, you want to cut 5% body fat and drop 15 pounds, like, cool, we, let's like, [00:17:05] let's do that.

Here's how we're gonna do it. But what's gonna help you get there is like, we need your, if you wanna squat, [00:17:10] like we need your squat to get here. We need like your mouth time we get here. Those things you're talking about, if always tie in performance goals with [00:17:15] it because that helps some, the discouragement along the way too.

When someone steps on the scale six weeks into a program, they're like. [00:17:20] Oh, I haven't, I haven't lost as much weight as I thought I did, and there's no [00:17:25] other performance goals tied to it. Then that becomes really deflating versus like, cool. No, I'm, [00:17:30] I, my scale hasn't moved much, but like I can see my abs for the first time in a while and like, I love the feeling of running [00:17:35] and I'm, I'm like, I'm lifting heavier than I have since high school.

And then people are still like fired up about the program [00:17:40] even though they're, what they thought was their one goal isn't maybe isn't getting achieved the way that they, [00:17:45] they thought it would.

Jerred: Yeah. I mean, so many great points there. It's just funny, man. I [00:17:50] haven't coached somebody like kind of in that beginning stage in a while, but I always enjoyed it because of how small we [00:17:55] would get to go.

It'd be like week one would just be like, you know, [00:18:00] basically telling 'em that their goals suck and, and setting new ones, you know, in, in a, in a nice, the nicest way [00:18:05] possible. And then it was like they're, they're all gung-ho, ready to do like a thousand different things and you. [00:18:10] Yeah, we're just gonna not drink sugar this week.

Like, uh, that's it for the next seven [00:18:15] to 14 days. And we're gonna work out three times and we're just gonna work on Yeah, getting your mile time [00:18:20] faster and here's some interval workouts you could do for that. And they're just so, like, part of it's like, [00:18:25] oh, I thought thought we're gonna be like doing all this stuff.

And it's like, we will, but [00:18:30] like, not yet. Let's just start here. And then, but it's also a sense of relief [00:18:35] because part of them is like. Oh, I thought we were gonna do more. Maybe I'm a slightly disappointed, but at the [00:18:40] same time, they're like, wait, I can do that. I, I just have to, I just don't drink, drink sugar this week and I [00:18:45] do three workouts.

That's it. And it's like, that's it. And it's like, okay, cool. Because what people don't understand is [00:18:50] that, um, your body, like you actually have to change this [00:18:55] structure that you've created, whether you've created it one way or another, like it's a performance vehicle or [00:19:00] it's not. And that doesn't just, it's not just, uh, chicken and rice [00:19:05] and, you know, some form of lettuce and some exercise.

It's like you actually have to [00:19:10] change every bit about it through the, the metabolism and how your [00:19:15] body utilizes energy and like how you are actually exercising and moving. So I think we've [00:19:20] gone probably pretty far off the rails on like self-efficacy and, and whatnot. But I think it, it [00:19:25] all, it all matters in the context of what do you wanna get better at, because.[00:19:30]

Something I do frequently, like if I keep getting hurt, um, which I'm, I'm kind of [00:19:35] past that stage in all honesty. Like, I, I just to update podcast listeners, like I'm feeling pretty good right now. [00:19:40] Like I, I'm doing some heavy squats, throwing that into the programming. Um, 'cause it, what, [00:19:45] before it was just like, if I touch those things, I, I feel it again.

But right now, like, I'm feeling great doing, [00:19:50] doing basically anything I want. One thing that I always go back to, [00:19:55] because it's a very hard thing to maintain, is a certain amount of pull-up repetitions in a given [00:20:00] timeframe or, or just anything like pushups, squats. Um, but let's [00:20:05] say you wanna do a hundred pull-ups in 10 minutes.

That's pretty hard to do. I'll just [00:20:10] tell you from my own experience as someone who's pretty good at pull-ups, a hundred strict pull-ups at 10 minutes is a very [00:20:15] achievable goal, uh, for me, um, within a short timeframe. Like it doesn't, nor it doesn't take me six [00:20:20] months of training to get to that. But normally if I haven't been doing it, even if I can do 25 strict [00:20:25] pull-ups in one set, those next 75 will take me.

The eight [00:20:30] minutes, the seven minutes or nine minute remainder to be able to do so. It's very challenging, [00:20:35] but I love to see that gap. When I go back to body weight training, I'm like, oh, you dude, you only [00:20:40] did, you only did 70 pull-ups in 10 minutes. Like you can, you've done more than this, like you [00:20:45] can fit 30 more repetitions in the same timeframe.

And that's like a very safe place to try and get [00:20:50] better. Right? And it's just like, as opposed to the barbell wave that people go on, that's like, [00:20:55] all right, I'm getting stronger, stronger, stronger, hurt. Take a break, and then you're just like, you're starting [00:21:00] four steps back to go to the same mountain peak over and over again.

[00:21:05] So I love experimenting with all these different things to, to try and get better.

Dave: [00:21:10] Yeah, and that's where, you know, starting like. Experimenting with different things if you haven't found [00:21:15] something that you love, like that's where we talk about some of those different domains. You can, you can try and you can do, [00:21:20] like, I've gotten incredibly strong on just body weight programs and just kettlebell programs and [00:21:25] barbell's always been a component there.

Like I've never stepped away for that long from it is, I know you're kind of [00:21:30] similar to that, but like there's so many things if you don't enjoy the bar, you like barbell squats just hurt my [00:21:35] back and my knees. It's like, okay, well there's lots of other ways you can get just as much benefit for what you're [00:21:40] trying to do.

Jerred: Yeah, that's what. And it's hard, uh, you know, all, all [00:21:45] last tangent and then we will, we can move on to like some updates, but I think [00:21:50] I worked with a lot of different physical therapists when my back was hurt and a lot of good ones. [00:21:55] Um, and, but at the end of the day, a lot of them did not understand the fact [00:22:00] that like, what I had actually done to my body.

Like, it's just [00:22:05] like a lot of, uh, a lot of people have not worked with like. A true performance [00:22:10] based athlete. I'm not saying I'm some professional athlete, but it's like you're, you're not trying to coach me to [00:22:15] like, you squat, like you don't like I've done that. You know, but I've done too [00:22:20] much of that. And I think that there's that side of things too.

It's like you can do too much and [00:22:25] when you're doing 20 rep max back squats like you've done, but you're doing it every week for [00:22:30] years. It's gonna take a toll. You know what I mean? And so you have to decide ultimately, [00:22:35] what do you wanna get better at? And it doesn't always have to be strength. There's other, other ways to do that.

Is, is the, the, you [00:22:40] know, the main point. But I think ultimately, end of the day, this was a phenomenal [00:22:45] study. I loved it sparked some great conversation. But if you're like, Hey, what's, what's the big takeaway here? [00:22:50] Chase performance metrics. We got the science to back it up. I've been saying it for years.

[00:22:55] Chase performance metrics. And I don't care if you wanna lose weight, I don't care if you wanna gain muscle or [00:23:00] strength or whatever, um, just chase a performance metric and try to make [00:23:05] that performance metric more in line with what you're, uh, going for. Like a cheat sheet here. If you're like, [00:23:10] okay, well I secretly wanna lose weight, what should I do?

Well chase a aerobic [00:23:15] metric, maybe like a 5K mile time, but throw in some strength training. Don't, just, don't only [00:23:20] do the one but the. Massive caloric burn from, uh, [00:23:25] aerobic work that you'd have to get like faster to 5K with some additional strength training. That's [00:23:30] gonna be strength training is the building the new version of you and the aerobic is the current burn calories.[00:23:35]

And if it's like, oh, I wanna gain more muscle, it's like, okay, well set a strength. Like go for [00:23:40] that bigger deadlift or bigger squat. 'cause I know anytime I've done that. I'll [00:23:45] gain 10 plus pounds, just like, oh crap, I'm just trying to get a heavier back [00:23:50] squat. And like, it's 'cause you're gaining more muscle mass, which, you know, most people wouldn't complain about, but like, sometimes you're like, I don't wanna, I [00:23:55] just want to get stronger without the weight.

Um, sometimes not possible. So anyway, you can, you can [00:24:00] chase performance metrics and have that secret goal in the back of your mind and still see a [00:24:05] lot of progress and you'll, you'll wanna show up for more at the end of the day.

Dave: Yeah. Last thing I'd [00:24:10] wrap up with on, on the study in general is. For those listening as you're [00:24:15] scrolling your feed and looking at different things like the health and fitness industry sometimes have done, has done more [00:24:20] harm than good on some of this, of like getting into battles over some of the wrong details [00:24:25] of like, well, everyone should be back squatting or this program, like little specifics on programming [00:24:30] things.

And I think that has done some people a disservice for people that are just trying to get started, like those that are more [00:24:35] advanced. I think it's great to optimize and try and do those things to continue to challenge yourself, but for [00:24:40] someone starting out, don't get, don't get overwhelmed when. People argue, you're like, well, I thought some [00:24:45] saying back squats are great and some are saying they're terrible and I should never do them.

It's like both are like, you don't [00:24:50] have to do them, but you could do them. And you know, if, if you're stuck, like follow a, you know, find a [00:24:55] good program you can follow, um, obviously like we have our athletes on and there's so many good ones out there. But don't [00:25:00] get, don't get caught in the battles of people going back and forth on social media arguing about who has the best [00:25:05] program when it's very, very individualized and something that you're gonna stick to long term is gonna be far better [00:25:10] than.

Hitting all the perfect variables for three months and then not doing anything for the next nine months,

Jerred: a hundred [00:25:15] percent. All right, man. Well, let's get some updates. How, how's life? How's training? How are you doing? [00:25:20]

Dave: Life's good. Um, family's good. The kiddos grow up too fast. They change, uh, [00:25:25] yeah. Every week.

Uh, our, uh, Elisa, Noah, for those that don't like, [00:25:30] they're, they're pretty, they're pretty petite. Like they're, they're both people guess they're usually like a year [00:25:35] or two younger than they are. They're, they're just, uh, I guess petite's the best way to put it. They were, [00:25:40] you know, in the, in the first percentile for.

Uh, for weight. So we're, we're trying [00:25:45] to, yeah, get some good, clean, good, good clean bulk in him. But our little guy, Caden, he's just like, he just seems like a [00:25:50] ha so we're, we're excited to see if he's gonna be just totally different or not, or if it's, uh, maybe he'll just burn [00:25:55] his, his baby weight off too.

But it's fun to watch them, uh, them growing and, uh, training [00:26:00] wise, uh, feeling good. Uh, came off a deload the other week and [00:26:05] so getting back into some of the running and, uh, did some interval work yesterday trying to. [00:26:10] Trying to manage really, right now, speaking of concurrent goals, of trying to like that, that juggling act is, [00:26:15] my run is pretty close to where I want it, and I know I need to hang onto it, [00:26:20] right?

Like the strength is, the strength is the farther side of it too. So I'm like, how do I add a little bit of weight, add some [00:26:25] strength, but not. You know, 'cause early on I was doing like three, like one longer run and two pretty hard [00:26:30] runs. I cut one of the hard runs out just because like, it doesn't, it doesn't seem necessary, at least right [00:26:35] now.

So it's gonna be that continual wave of like, okay, if I feel that's slowing down, I [00:26:40] may have to add in a little bit of running or change up, change up the type of running. But that's my current, current dilemma is it's [00:26:45] getting a little more of a strength focus these next four weeks, at least for me to, uh, try and [00:26:50] push those numbers up a little bit.

That's just where I'm further from, from my goal at this point.

Jerred: I think you got like a five to seven [00:26:55] pound buffer. You could gain and probably hold onto the 5K. I mean, it'd be slightly more [00:27:00] uncomfortable, but I think if it's muscle, it'll help the lifts a lot. Yeah. If it's muscle like I think, I think [00:27:05] you can do it.

I think it, yeah.

Dave: Yeah. Not trying to just throw five pounds of fat on and then call it a [00:27:10] car productive.

Jerred: I gained in the name of power lifting sometimes that that's [00:27:15] all it takes in power lifting. Mass moves mass, right? Yep. Yeah. Uh, well, I [00:27:20] mean, that's awesome man. For me. Dude, it's just been a bunch of kids' sports.

[00:27:25] Boys are in football, um, which has been a lot of fun, uh, to [00:27:30] watch. This is my grandma's my middle. He's in the fifth grade. This is his [00:27:35] first year in tackle football, and he has played soccer since he's three up until now. [00:27:40] And he's just crushing it on the football field. He's, um, he is [00:27:45] like, Hey, was this, was this sport supposed to be challenging?

I think, I think, uh, [00:27:50] soccer. And I say this to, to you, you have younger kids, anyone out there like, get your [00:27:55] kids in soccer. Like, and, and hopefully they like it. 'cause we tried this with like my oldest William [00:28:00] and he just didn't like soccer. So it, it didn't stick around. Then he, he switched to football very early on.[00:28:05]

'cause you can do that too, like flag football and everything else. So anyway, uh, he's really [00:28:10] enjoying it and, you know, getting to do all the things, uh, run, catch, kick. [00:28:15] He's actually the kicker as well. So it's, it's been fun to, to watch him progress. Same with William, [00:28:20] uh, tackle football in the seventh grade, first year of middle school football.

[00:28:25] And, uh, it's just his team's crushing it. They're like, they're undefeated now in the [00:28:30] season and just. Killing everybody. So it's, it's been fun. Um, and then [00:28:35] Eleanor, our youngest is in dance, which again, kids sports and activities like, that's, that's a majority of my [00:28:40] life, but I actually really, really enjoy it.

I really, really do. Uh, because we get to [00:28:45] talk about how to get better. There's so many life lessons in sports, um, [00:28:50] that you get to communicate to your kids, you know, about, like hard work and effort. And, [00:28:55] you know, I, I did a podcast episode on this about how to raise athletic kids on. [00:29:00] My other podcast, the Better Podcast, um, what, just what it's called.

It's not [00:29:05] better than Garage Gym Athlete. Uh, not better than, it's just better. [00:29:10] Just better. Just better. Uh, but anyway, I talked about that, uh, a whole episode on that of just like [00:29:15] raising athletic kids has a lot to do with like, focusing on [00:29:20] their effort and focusing not on the outcome, you know? And I think that that's the biggest thing I've been [00:29:25] trying to do.

Uh. For a long time. And what was really cool about that is [00:29:30] I, William, my oldest, he did a [00:29:35] letter to himself. He wrote it at the end of last year, and then the school holds onto it [00:29:40] and then they mail it out this semester. And so we just got it in that, in the mail not long [00:29:45] ago. Um, and it's like a, like what would you wanna say to yourself, you know, [00:29:50] next year, or maybe it was the beginning of last year and it's like a year later you get this letter from yourself [00:29:55] and, um.

It was cool reading through it. Uh, in all honesty, I [00:30:00] was like, dude, did AI write this? Uh, because like, it was good. He's like, what are you talking about? We don't, [00:30:05] that's not even a thing in my world. Like, we don't use AI to write things. I was like, all right, cool. Um, but it was so [00:30:10] good. Um, he wrote so well, but one of the things he wrote in there was like, make [00:30:15] sure you're, you're trying harder.

Your dad's gonna get mad. And, uh, you know, it, it wasn't, [00:30:20] I think he said it actually even nicer than how I just said it, but ultimately that's, that was the takeaway, [00:30:25] and I was like. I'm glad it's landing, you know? 'cause sometimes you don't know. You don't [00:30:30] know if like, because your dad, parents', brother, whatever, they can say whatever they want, but it's [00:30:35] like you normally get lessons from other people and all this stuff.

Kids listening to you is difficult thing, but he, [00:30:40] it, it's, it's landing, right? He understands, like, he actually understands that it's not, it's not [00:30:45] secretly about the touchdowns. It's not like I say effort, but. Go score the damn [00:30:50] touchdown. You know, like he knows it's not that like I don't really care. Um, like I'll celebrate you.

If [00:30:55] you get a touchdown, that's great. But at the end of the day, if, let's just [00:31:00] say for example, he had a breakaway, 'cause he a receiver, he had a breakaway [00:31:05] 40 yards and he burned everybody and he 15 yards [00:31:10] in, he could walk or jo or slow down and he scored a touchdown. [00:31:15] Well, I have a conversation I have to have with him about, [00:31:20] no dude, you hold onto the ball and you run as fast as you can all the way through the line, [00:31:25] even though there's a touchdown, right?

Like, and most people, I wouldn't come down hard on him and this hasn't happened. I'm just [00:31:30] trying to give an example of like, no, it's truly about the effort. It's never about the outcome. And, and [00:31:35] that's, uh, a situation where I'll be like, I'd be like, Hey, that's awesome that you scored that [00:31:40] touchdown. Like, you know, your work in practice got you to the touchdown, but ultimately.

[00:31:45] Uh, you we're not gonna slow down. All right. We're not gonna slow down right there at the finish line. 'cause you never know, [00:31:50] you know, you were safe this time, but you might not be next time. Like, that's, those are the lessons that I'm trying to hit on with 'em, and it's [00:31:55] really landing. So anyway, that's, that's what I'm enjoying now as far as my own training.

Yeah, I'm just, [00:32:00] I'm, I'm honestly doing a hodgepodge of garage gym athlete archives, [00:32:05] like just all these like programs that I've created over the years with kettlebells and, and barbells. [00:32:10] Uh, the, the main thing that I'm waiting for is just to click over to a new cycle is, [00:32:15] um, that this happens. This is happened to me frequently when I've been in, like life transitions moving or whatever.

[00:32:20] I don't want to hop back into a cycle at the end. And so I just, like, I'm doing all sorts of random [00:32:25] stuff. Um. I'd say random with a purpose. Like I always have like an idea of what I'm trying to [00:32:30] get better at, um, until a new cycle starts. And then I'll be like, okay, last cycle [00:32:35] of the year. Like what do, what do I want to do?

What do I get better at? Whether that's writing my own or following one [00:32:40] specifically garage gym athlete. Um, 'cause normally when I write my own, that just means you'll see it the next [00:32:45] cycle, like in, in 2026. Uh, so anyway, that, that's what I'm doing right now. [00:32:50] That's like.

Dave: That's cool. I like how you clear that up too.

'cause random is not like you're just [00:32:55] walking in like, I have no idea what I'm gonna do today. Let's just see where that,

Jerred: dude, my, and, and this [00:33:00] is not an ego thing, but like, I honestly have forgotten more about fitness than most [00:33:05] people will ever learn. And so like, um, that's just, and that's fine if you're listening to this and you [00:33:10] had didn't dedicate your life to it.

Like the, that's, that's not shade. It's just like, this is what I love and enjoy [00:33:15] and like read and research and stuff. So yeah, when my random is like. A very [00:33:20] well thought out program compared to most people's random, like, hmm, maybe treadmill for five [00:33:25] minutes, 11 pushups, call it a day. Like, you know, it's, it's very specific.

Um, but [00:33:30] I will say one thing, like it is like, what are you, what's the backend, what are you trying to get better at? [00:33:35] I, I'm trying to increase like overall like. [00:33:40] Density, uh, like muscular density, like, um, endurance muscle battery, like whatever you [00:33:45] wanna call it, to try and get a decent murf time again, because I think my murf [00:33:50] time is good right now.

Like if I were to test it, but it's not phenomenal. And I, uh, I think [00:33:55] around Memorial Day this year, I really wanna try and crush it because it was two years [00:34:00] ago, I think I was super upset with my m time. Like I was really [00:34:05] upset with it. I was like, how do you go from like. These crazy times to that. [00:34:10] And it was bad.

And it was really hard. Last year wasn't so bad. Like it was better, but still nothing like [00:34:15] crazy. And I was like, I'm not gonna be disappointed this Memorial Day. Like I'm gonna, I'm [00:34:20] gonna go hard and I want, I got plenty of time, right? I got a lot of time to train for that. But that's kind of been in the back of my [00:34:25] head with doing all this like, combination of running and like body weight is like, how do I get better at [00:34:30] that for in May?

Like that's what I ultimately wanna do. So that's, that's the secret goal in [00:34:35] the back of my head. But no, like specific like. Oh, is it a pr It's like, I don't think it's [00:34:40] PR yet. And the reason I don't commit to those things anymore is because I don't know my [00:34:45] body anymore. Like, I don't know if I, like, if I'm like, yep.

PR in, on Memorial Day for [00:34:50] Murph. It's like, well, one, I've set some pretty crazy times, so it's gonna be really hard to PR and two, if [00:34:55] I get hurt in February, I'm not gonna, not gonna sludge through it and, and [00:35:00] be like, yeah, I'm gonna keep going for that pr. So in the back of my mind, yeah, I wanna go really fast [00:35:05] in, in May on Merck.

We'll see. Love it. We'll see how fast it goes. So [00:35:10] fast ish at least. Yeah, fast ish. Alright, cool. Well that's it for this one. Everyone, thank you [00:35:15] so much for watching. We're listening. We are on YouTube, and for all of our athletes doing the [00:35:20] training, we really appreciate you. If you want to try out Garage Gym Athlete training, go to garage gym [00:35:25] athlete.com, sign up for free trial.

But that's it for this one. Remember, if you don't kill comfort, comfort will kill [00:35:30] you.