Sauna: best for Performance? Recovery? or Nothing?

In this episode of the Garage Gym Athlete podcast, Jerred Moon, Dave Paczkowski, and Joe Courtney dig into a brand-new 2025 study that explores the impact of infrared sauna use on neuromuscular performance and muscle hypertrophy. The study tracked 40 female athletes through a 6-week strength training program—half using infrared saunas post-workout and the other half not.

Infrared Sauna Results: Underwhelming or Underbuilt?

While the study aimed to show increased strength or hypertrophy gains from using infrared saunas post-exercise, results were mostly flat. The control group and sauna group experienced similar strength gains. However, the sauna group showed slightly better power output on some tests. The catch? The temperature of the sauna may have been too low to create the muscle-heating effects that trigger real physiological change.

Jerred was skeptical of infrared saunas from the start—and this study didn’t change his mind. He pointed out that many of the benefits touted in sauna research (recovery, hormone regulation, mTOR activation) rely on raising muscle temperature significantly, ideally to around 100–104°F. The low internal temperatures in this study likely didn’t hit that threshold, making the benefits minimal at best.

So, Are Saunas Worth It?

Absolutely—but context matters.

Jerred explains that traditional saunas with high heat (170°F–200°F) are much more effective than infrared saunas. The higher temperature is what stimulates increased heart rate, vasodilation, and improved blood circulation—all vital for recovery and long-term health.

If you can’t afford or access a sauna? Don’t worry. Jerred and Dave both emphasize that you can gain many of the same recovery benefits through low-intensity aerobic activity—like walking or a light Airdyne session. These also improve blood flow, recovery, and insulin sensitivity without needing expensive equipment.

When Should You Sauna?

Timing depends on your goals:

• For hypertrophy and recovery: Post-exercise sauna use is optimal. Muscles are already warm, making it easier to reach the threshold temperature for results.

• For better sleep and relaxation: Evening sauna sessions can help you wind down and improve sleep quality.

Just don’t overdo it—Jerred shared that a recent 20-minute session in a new, hotter sauna left him too overstimulated to sleep well.

DIY or Die Trying: Building Your Own Sauna

Joe shouted out @diycoldplunge on Instagram—a builder who shares guides for constructing budget-friendly saunas and cold plunges. Jerred, a former DIY squat rack builder himself, loved the concept. With rising prices for commercial sauna units, building your own might be the smartest option for athletes on a budget.

Final Takeaway: Chase Performance, Not Just Tools

Whether it’s saunas, cold plunges, or gadgets like heart rate monitors and smartwatches, the real key is consistency and smart programming. Don’t chase hacks—chase performance metrics. Set strength, conditioning, or mobility goals that motivate you, and let recovery tools be just that: tools, not magic bullets.

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Garage Gym Athlete Workout of the Week

Podcast Transcript

Jerred: [00:00:00] Gentlemen, welcome to the Garage Dramatic podcast. [00:00:05] Jerred Moon here with Dave and Joe. Gentlemen, how are, how are you? This [00:00:10] fine day?

Joe: Pretty good.

Jerred: Pretty good. Pretty good. [00:00:15] Joe, I think Joe said earlier, his life is like [00:00:20] a par five and he just bird. I thought it was a really, no, don't put don't put, don't smart a joke on me.[00:00:25]

That's a really smart comment. So he's he's crushing it. He's doing, he's doing [00:00:30] great things. Uh, all right. We're gonna be talking about saunas today. I talked about them [00:00:35] some solo casts recently. How I'm way more bullish on, on Sauna over. [00:00:40] Like cold plunge or anything else. Um, especially when you look at like the different, [00:00:45] all the different aspects that are involved with the benefits, I guess is the [00:00:50] best way to say it.

But the study that we're looking at today is effects of repeated use of [00:00:55] post-exercise, infrared sauna on neuromuscular performance and muscle hypertrophy. This is [00:01:00] done in 2025. Um, so I'm gonna just read the purpose from the abstract. [00:01:05] And it said the aim of this study was to investigate whether regular use of infrared [00:01:10] sauna after training promote neuromuscular performance and positive changes in body [00:01:15] composition during a six week training period.

So they had 40 female athletes. They basically broke [00:01:20] 'em up into two groups. The infrared sauna group and the control group. The, uh, they were both [00:01:25] going through a six week training program and then the people doing the sauna were doing [00:01:30] infrared sauna. I think it was three times per week. Uh. But the reason I wanna cover this [00:01:35] study is because I don't like infrared sauna and I wanted to prove it.

Um, but [00:01:40] ultimately I'm gonna cut straight to the results and the conclusions. They [00:01:45] did see results in general from doing a six week training [00:01:50] program, which, okay, that makes sense. Right. But they did [00:01:55] not see a ton of results on the muscle hypertrophy side. They saw [00:02:00] some tiny, I'm gonna call it tiny results on the [00:02:05] power side.

'cause they were looking at performance and they were looking at muscle hypertrophy, muscle growth, and they saw [00:02:10] some tiny results on the, uh, power side of things. Um, but [00:02:15] I don't know if this disproves helps, hurts the case for [00:02:20] saunas. I think it's more about infrared and the. How they actually, uh, implemented the study.

[00:02:25] But I wanna get your opinion. I'll start with you, Damian. What'd you think of this study?

Dave: [00:02:30] Some of the, I mean, looking at the actual sauna stuff that, I mean, they. They didn't do a great [00:02:35] job with getting the temp where like a lot of past studies had much higher temperatures than what they actually [00:02:40] tested at.

I forget the exact numbers that they reported at, but it was low, it was

Jerred: 88 degrees. So [00:02:45] at the, at the hip level, they said it higher. Yeah, they, they set it higher, but at the hip [00:02:50] level it was 88 degrees. But they set it to, I think it was, they said it to one 20. [00:02:55] Um, I think is, if I have that right. Obviously the [00:03:00] saunas different, different temperatures from the top to the bottom, and the hip level was about 88, so in my [00:03:05] mind, up to the face level was probably closer to one 20 or 1 10, [00:03:10] 1 15, something like that.

Dave: Yeah. Which for us in, uh, Alabama or Texas summer isn't a whole lot different [00:03:15] than, uh, just stepping outside for a little bit. So, yeah. Uh, but the infrared stuff, yeah. Without seeing much [00:03:20] significant difference in that, I don't think it disproves anything against the sauna, but doesn't, there wasn't enough [00:03:25] difference for me to.

To wanna jump into, you know, adding infrared to the, the [00:03:30] recovery routine. Especially when, you know, it's, it, it comes down to a, a time factor for people too, of like, okay, [00:03:35] what's the, what's the best use of time? Is, do people wanna jump into these, like, infrared things or people [00:03:40] think cold plunging different things.

It's like, are some of the elements we talked about in the other podcast, like, imagine [00:03:45] stress doing some deep breathing for five minutes, or going and taking a walk. Um, this didn't tip [00:03:50] the needle for me in any ways on, uh, wanting to add that to my, uh, to my routine. [00:03:55]

Joe: What do you think, Joe? So, [00:04:00] study-wise, there were definitely some good things that I liked, but then there were just some, I, there were a lot of the setup I [00:04:05] didn't think was exactly set up to win, to, to, to make that much of a difference.

Like to me, if [00:04:10] you're. Like the testing sprint, speed and power. It seems six weeks is a [00:04:15] little bit short, like if there's already athletes, I agree. And you're testing sprint speed, like you're gonna get [00:04:20] fractional differences and it might just be like a good day or a bad day. So that was kind of weird why they decided to do [00:04:25] that.

However, I really liked what they tested. Like I wish more studies did more tests. What they did, it was [00:04:30] almost like a concurrent training S test. They did power, they did jumping sprint. [00:04:35] Speed. Uh, they did, uh, lifting with leg press and hypertrophy. Like they tested [00:04:40] a lot of different things, which I wish more studies would do.

So it was a good blend of that. But I, [00:04:45] I just don't think it was made in a way to get much results. And that's kind of what the [00:04:50] results were like. There wasn't a downside to it. There was possibly an upside here and there. Maybe if you [00:04:55] really believe that you'll get, get, get more benefit out of it. You can have a placebo effect on [00:05:00] top of a possible.

Positive effect. But other than that, I don't know if you're [00:05:05] gonna be saing for performance gains, especially if you're already an athlete. [00:05:10] And these athletes are from Finland who probably grew up in saunas.

Jerred: Right? [00:05:15] Uh, yeah, I, I agree with the, the length there six weeks I thought was a little short to be [00:05:20] trying to look for any significant change.

And especially if it's like. No [00:05:25] one, no one thinks sauna is like the game changer. Like I don't even, no one's like thinking that it's [00:05:30] more like a supplement, right? It's like, yeah, if you're already doing all the right things, maybe this adds a five to 10% [00:05:35] bump to overall health recovery, whatever it is. Uh, but I [00:05:40] use this study, um, as a, as a way to kind of talk [00:05:45] more about.

If you are gonna be using sauna, how to think about it [00:05:50] and how to execute it. And that's most of what I prepared to kind of like go over [00:05:55] because they even mentioned different studies within this study. If you read the full [00:06:00] text, they're like, they're talking about, um, some of the principles around. [00:06:05] Sauna use and everything.

And, and I was surprised. I'm like, oh, you, you knew all this, but you still [00:06:10] picked an infrared sauna. And here's my best understanding of it. Just for all the [00:06:15] athletes out there, anybody who wants to use sauna, what seems to matter [00:06:20] most is the actual muscle increasing in temperature. If [00:06:25] you want to elicit those heat shock proteins, which can then, uh, [00:06:30] upregulate mTOR hypertrophy.

Um, all of those things, all the good things [00:06:35] that come with, you know, the secret sauce by the way. Exercise does all those things too. Um, but [00:06:40] if you want to like get those things, uh, those benefits, the actual muscle [00:06:45] temperature, temperature has to increase. And the magic number, which [00:06:50] I don't think really matters 'cause we have no way of actually measuring.

At home, we have no way of [00:06:55] measuring your muscle temperature. You can, you could measure the ambient skin, skin temperature, which is still not [00:07:00] the, the temperature of your muscle, so the muscle has to get hot. That's the core principle. Every [00:07:05] athlete out there needs to know the muscle has to increase up to a hundred to 104 degrees.[00:07:10]

So again, that's not ambient temperature because your skin is very [00:07:15] thick, doesn't let things into the body very easily and and temperature one of them, right? It's, it's trying to [00:07:20] sweat, it's trying to cool you off. It's doing everything you can to where like your internal organs don't get too hot. You [00:07:25] overall, you just don't get too hot.

But we can force ourselves through these things and continue to get an increase in [00:07:30] temperature. And if, you know, that's the core thing, like that's what elicits all the, the responses. [00:07:35] Then in my mind, just using my own logic here. You would need to be in the [00:07:40] hottest environment possible to be able to do that.

Right? Like that just, [00:07:45] and you guys can check me if that logic doesn't make sense, but if I am, I want, I want to talk [00:07:50] to a, um, combat controller. And we were, we were talking about, um, having to be [00:07:55] in cold, cold water or water, just any water. And I was like, what, what water [00:08:00] temperature, uh, you know, scares you for getting hypothermia?

And he said. [00:08:05] Anything below 98 degrees. He said basically anything below my current temperature. And I was like, well, so if the water's like [00:08:10] 95 degrees out, that concerns you. He is like, depends on how long I'm in the water. And [00:08:15] so that's that's a good point, right? It's like duration matters. So if, [00:08:20] if I were, wanted my muscles to get to 104 degrees and so I set, uh, [00:08:25] a sauna to 104 degrees, it will work, but it might take six hours.[00:08:30]

I might have to be in that box for six hours before my muscle reaches that temperature. So if you want it to happen [00:08:35] quicker, you need to be in the 170 to 200 degree sauna. So you can only be in [00:08:40] there for 15 to 20 minutes, get that muscle up to the, to the correct temperature. And so [00:08:45] that's what we're trying to do and that's why I'm, I'm not a huge of infrared saunas.

All the research I [00:08:50] look at and have looked at, it all goes back to just actual temperature. [00:08:55] Temperature of the muscle having to increase. And that seems to be. The, the magic, right? Like [00:09:00] that's where everything comes. Uh, but then when you look at it deeper, and I was like diving into [00:09:05] it, I'm like, all the benefits that you have with [00:09:10] sauna use.

So heart rate is elevated, it climbs up. So you're [00:09:15] getting some of those, uh, benefits. You're burning calories, you have, uh, it improves your [00:09:20] insulin sensitivity, uh, helps with circulation, uh, vasodilation, [00:09:25] improved endothelial function. You have recovery adaptations, [00:09:30] blah, blah, blah. And when I read all those benefits, I'm like, so kind of like [00:09:35] exercise and it's a hundred percent the same.

And, and so this is the other [00:09:40] thing I want people to know. If you just hopped on an airdyne, I'm just using an airdyne as [00:09:45] example for 20 minutes and you did all of just 20 minutes low intensity [00:09:50] workout. 'cause a asuna doesn't get your heart rate to like one 70, right? So it's [00:09:55] zone two at best. Uh, maybe lower.

And so if you got on an airdyne and just [00:10:00] moved for 20 minutes, you get all the same benefits of the sauna. The only difference is [00:10:05] if you're using the sauna to kind of like chill and relax and actually [00:10:10] recover. There is a big difference between the airdyne and the sauna. Just in that one modality, everything else is [00:10:15] the same.

So if you're like, I don't wanna spend. $40,000 for asuna, whatever they cost. Now, [00:10:20] they, they, the prices have gotten ridiculous, um, I think for a hot box, but [00:10:25] they used to be a lot cheaper. So anyway, if you're like, I, I can't afford it, just do a little [00:10:30] extra light cardio. And I think, Joe, you know, we, we covered that back in the back in the day, and we've, we've talked [00:10:35] about a lot on the podcast, like, what is the best hands down recovery you can do, period.[00:10:40]

Is it like, is it the boots, the compression boots? Is it a certain protein or is it creatine? It's like, [00:10:45] no. Light aerobic movement, and it's the same, same in [00:10:50] comparison with, uh, sauna and and Airdyne or whatever. It's, so I know that's kind of like [00:10:55] a soapbox moment for me, but it's just sometimes I think people get way into the weeds of this crap when, [00:11:00] when in reality, like the execution and benefits aren't really that hard to achieve through different means.[00:11:05]

Joe: Yeah, that's good. That's good. Good Joe. Uh, but 'cause [00:11:10] uh, after I did the breakdown of the study, I had three questions that I wrote down. Pretty much was, I was gonna ask you [00:11:15] is why do you use Asuna? What benefit are you looking for and what to look for in Asana as [00:11:20] the resident sauna owner who. Got a new house and you have a [00:11:25] sauna.

Do you currently have working plumbing at your house though?

Jerred: Mm-hmm. Nope. No? Do you have a sauna?

Joe: So, [00:11:30] as the sauna resident and the one that like, um, even the study wasn't that [00:11:35] proven, like you're still somewhat of an advocate for saunas, but not necessarily for what they were doing. [00:11:40]

Jerred: So the reason I use Asana is because, um, [00:11:45] well, well, two, two reasons.

One, I, I like the recovery side of it, like it does. [00:11:50] I like to be able to chill, do that. At the end of the day, I think it helps with my [00:11:55] sleep a ton, but also I see it as a sneaky way to add in more fitness [00:12:00] in all honesty. Like, uh, 'cause I'm already, I'm already gonna exercise, you know, five or six days a week.[00:12:05]

So everything I'm talking about. With like hopping on the airdyne or whatever. I'm seeing those [00:12:10] benefits at some point in the day, whether it's middle of the day or in the morning. And so to get in a little bit of extra, let's [00:12:15] call it zone two, or just light cardio work at the end of the day through sauna use, that also chills me out.[00:12:20]

That's the main reason I like it. 'cause I, I would never bet my [00:12:25] money on sauna equating to exercise to where I'm like, you know what? I'm not gonna [00:12:30] exercise this week. I'll just do sauna every day. I don't, I don't think that's, that's working. Like there, [00:12:35] there's just no way that. They're tick for attack.

Right? Like, there, there's no way. So anyway, [00:12:40] that, that, those are the main reasons I use. It's uh, it's just like chill mode helps with my sleep recovery [00:12:45] and sneaky way to get a little more fitness.

Dave: Yeah. And a couple things with that. The, the bio, [00:12:50] the people that take, you know, biohack and you get a study that can be cherry picked, even if this one was.[00:12:55]

Better designed and then people think like they go all in. I'm like, well, I'm just gonna do saunas. And [00:13:00] like you said, replacing replacing fitness or putting too higher priority on [00:13:05] something that's getting you five to 10% of an improvement. And not [00:13:10] focusing on the thing that can get you the 90 to 95% of like just fitness in a good [00:13:15] program and those things.

But where it could be, you know, of high use is like you're using it [00:13:20] or people that are, you look at competitive athletes or people that are training hard. [00:13:25] Like there is, if you can get that benefit without having to go do another aerobic session, when your [00:13:30] legs are already trashed from training legs in some way for six days a week or seven days a [00:13:35] week, like some of these athletes are, it's like that's a better use of it than trying to fit in, you know?

And especially [00:13:40] the people that, uh, are training that hard, like they have that more as better mentality and they try [00:13:45] and like, well, I'll just add in, I'll go for a little like shakeout run or something like that. And it's like, well that may be [00:13:50] counterproductive. So I think just weighing out your overall fitness program, if you are.

Hitting all the [00:13:55] boxes during the week and training hard enough, then the sun is gonna be a better use. Now, if you're only [00:14:00] training three days a week and you're like having a hard time doing that, then like, yes, go for a little run [00:14:05] or take a walk, or you know, do get on the bike for a little bit. It's gonna be much more beneficial.

So I think it's more [00:14:10] applicable to the people that are already like hitting it pretty hard, and it could be a way to get that little extra [00:14:15] benefit, but for most people it's not gonna replace cardio or exercise. [00:14:20]

Jerred: Yeah, and I told Joe, uh, we've talked about this on the podcast, like I'm [00:14:25] always looking for hormesis each and every single day.

Like, how am I gonna stress my, my body? Most of [00:14:30] the times that's through exercise, but if I got busy or whatever, it didn't happen, I still [00:14:35] wanna check that box in some capacity. So sometimes that might just be sauna. So sometimes it's a catchall, a good [00:14:40] catchall at the end of the day. But yeah, it's, it's not something you have to buy.

But someone I wanted to [00:14:45] mention, give a, a shout out. I don't know him. Um, he doesn't [00:14:50] know me. He didn't pay for this, and I have to look him up on my phone right now to make sure I don't mess it [00:14:55] up. Um, I. He is on Instagram. [00:15:00] His name is Joe apparently. And, uh, his, his handle is [00:15:05] DIY cold plunge. I dunno if you guys have seen this guy.

[00:15:10] Um, so Joe, here's your shout out man, but he does DIY, cold [00:15:15] plunges and DIY saunas. And. To be honest, i I, from a business [00:15:20] perspective, like I started following this guy when, like, he just started and I was like, okay, this is cool. Your Instagram account's, teaching people how to [00:15:25] build these things. And I was like, let's see how you monetize the business side of me.

He's always like, interested in that, but he's [00:15:30] done a pretty good job of like putting together these like packages you can buy for, uh, to build these things. [00:15:35] But anyway, if you're interested in a sauna or coal plunge, I would go that route just [00:15:40] because like if, if, if, uh, finances are any type of concern because.

You [00:15:45] can build these things for like, way cheaper than what comp And, and I think they're getting completely outta hand. [00:15:50] Um, like, I think the, the plunge or whatever, plunge.com or [00:15:55] whatever they are, I mean, I think they're charging like 10 or $12,000 for Asana [00:16:00] and it's just, it's a cedar box with a heater in it, man.

Like, there's nothing special about these things. [00:16:05] Um, and I'll, I'll lump myself into that, that category of, [00:16:10] um. Like, did I, you know, is it, was it worth the money or whatever. It's [00:16:15] like, well, time-wise, I don't, I don't have the two weeks it would take me to build this thing [00:16:20] realistically. And I already had a heater, so I just needed to find a, the wood box.

So I bought a [00:16:25] wood box from the company and not the whole thing. So anyway, I, uh, if I, if I did it again, [00:16:30] I'd probably just build it, um, because [00:16:35] it's getting, getting kind of crazy out there, but I think it's worth it ultimately.

Joe: That's pretty cool. [00:16:40]

Jerred: Yeah. No, Joe,

Joe: it's a regular yours, a regular plug or, uh, because I know your last one you had to have a [00:16:45] special outlet.

Jerred: No, it's mine's hardwired in, uh, well, no, it's not [00:16:50] hardwired, uh, against my electrician's concerns. Voided all warranties. [00:16:55] I specifically requested for like a dryer plug, so if I ever wanna move it, I can, I [00:17:00] don't like having to have it be higher hardwired. So yeah, it's uh, it's got like a dryer plug [00:17:05] to it.

Dave: For someone that does wanna implement sauna. 'cause I don't, I mean I, this is something I just don't [00:17:10] do as much either. Would you, do you like the end of the day spot for it versus, I know the study looked at the post [00:17:15] exercise window, or is it a fitted in whatever type of thing. Do you think there's any benefit to timing of it?[00:17:20]

Jerred: Um, you know, I'd be interested to know that because I talk [00:17:25] about, you know, muscle temperature being the main thing. Like if you're looking for hypertrophy, and that's another thing [00:17:30] like I'm. Secretly. Hope that helps right me, helps me maintain muscle [00:17:35] mass more than anything else. But I wonder if you were to do a workout, which is gonna increase your core body temperature, it's gonna [00:17:40] increase the temperature of your muscles if you were to then hop into a sauna right after, if that would only [00:17:45] escalate it or maybe reduce the amount of time required to be in there to see all those benefits.

So I'd say if like [00:17:50] you're looking for pure, like hypertrophy benefit, not even recovery, [00:17:55] um, post, post exercise makes a lot of sense to me, even from a. [00:18:00] It, it'd be the equivalent of like hopping on an airdyne for 15 minutes just to get blood flow [00:18:05] postworkout too. That helps a ton with the recovery as we've seen in a lot of different studies.

So I think post-workout, if I [00:18:10] had to like put 'em head to head is, is probably the ideal spot to do it for all [00:18:15] the all possible benefits except for when you're comparing it to, to sleep. [00:18:20] Um, that's just helped me a ton with sleep unless I push it too far, which I [00:18:25] did in recent history 'cause I'm getting used to the new sauna.

It's my new sauna is much smaller. But [00:18:30] with a heater that can heat three times the size, so it gets really [00:18:35] hot in there. Um, and it has bench seats, so I can see, hit, uh, sit higher. It's not a, not [00:18:40] a, uh, barrel sauna anymore, and I pushed it. [00:18:45] Like, after having not been in the sauna for a while because of the move and everything, and I did [00:18:50] not sleep well that night.

I like stressed the system too much and, and I knew it because like at minute [00:18:55] 12 I was like, I, I feel like I should get out. Like, that was at minute 12 and I [00:19:00] pushed it to minute 20 and I was like, I was, I was cooking like I think my heart [00:19:05] rate seeded was like one 50. I'm like, that's. That's pretty crazy, you know?

So anyway, [00:19:10] don't push it that hard. Um, and, and you'll be fine. But otherwise, it normally helps me, [00:19:15] helps me relax quite a bit and helps my sleep a ton.

Joe: [00:19:20] Trouble is just trying to get, find, find places to, to get in the sauna without owning one, [00:19:25] which I've kind of tried to do that in the past. I know there's some like.

[00:19:30] Cheaper. There's some, some cheaper gyms that with gym memberships, you can get that. They'll have stuff like that, but [00:19:35] there's not as many around. I've tried to find 'em in past areas that I've lived in. Maybe my [00:19:40] next one. Yeah,

Jerred: well go build one. Apparently the this DIY guy, um, [00:19:45] last, last shout out. His is just a normal plug.

It's not a, not a big, big plug. So, [00:19:50] um, yeah. Go

Joe: Joe

Jerred: Plunge guy. Go Joe [00:19:55] Plunge guy. All right, everyone go. I mean that's, I had to give him a shout 'cause that's how Garage Gym Athletes started, [00:20:00] right? It's like, oh, you can't afford a squat rack. Let's build one outta two by sixes. [00:20:05] Right? Like, that was, that's how Garage Gym athletes started.

That's, I mean, if you read the first book, which all is [00:20:10] almost like irrelevant. Uh, my first book is irrelevant now, is like how to build everything. [00:20:15] Because back in the day. Everything costs a lot of money and shipping was a, a nightmare. [00:20:20] Um, and now like none of those things are true. It's very easy to get whatever you want on Amazon.[00:20:25]

Um, all right, other things, we'll, we'll move on, but [00:20:30] ultimately, get your muscles hot however you want. And you'll see results don't, maybe don't do it the way they did in this study, [00:20:35] but Joe, I have to ask you, man, I don't know how we haven't talked about this 'cause it's been [00:20:40] maybe a month. Did you see the new Garmin Phoenix eight Pro.[00:20:45]

Did you see it come out? I did not. I'm surprised it hasn't popped up on anything. Uh, same. I was like, what are you doing? [00:20:50] Garmin? Like they, Garmin needs

Joe: influencers. Like I feel like we just had an update like [00:20:55] last year, a new thing. Or maybe it was whispers about the eight. I forget. I feel like I just, it wasn't that long ago where I [00:21:00] was looking into something Garmin.

Jerred: Well, I was sneaky trying to [00:21:05] say Garmin needs influencers by saying, I don't consider myself an influencer, but if you need [00:21:10] me to be Garmin. I'm an influencer. I, I'll influence whoever you want. Ah, you start [00:21:15] throwing me free Garmins. And your alarms are dud now, apparently. So. Yes. So I need [00:21:20] one. I need a new one, right?

It's like the, the vibrations not working in as well. Um, so anyway, [00:21:25] the eight pro is out again, just like giving shout outs so we don't make any money from [00:21:30] it. Uh, but they added, um, LTEI think [00:21:35] that's like the big, the big upgrade, right? So like you can message and call without the [00:21:40] use of your phone. Um, to me this is new.

Okay. I do remember seeing so like that, like I, [00:21:45] hopefully this isn't like a year old. As far as I know, this is like a, like a month old.

Joe: Um, [00:21:50] I think I, I think I might, maybe they had like early previews or something that I, [00:21:55] um, uh, that I saw like months ago, but like right now, I, I guess maybe it's finally out.[00:22:00]

Jerred: Yeah, I think that's the main thing. What else did it do? It had some other cool features. That was the only [00:22:05] thing I was like, okay, everything's the same except for now I can. [00:22:10] I can talk to people, whatever. Yeah. It has inReach technology so you can access LTE and [00:22:15] satellite networks. Like I guess if, uh, you don't want that 127 hours thing to [00:22:20] happen to you where you have to cut off your own arm, if you get stuck between two boulders, you can just [00:22:25] instead use your watch to get out.

Um, hopefully

Dave: that arm's free. [00:22:30]

Jerred: Yeah, dude. Uh, isn't that insane? Have you guys seen that movie [00:22:35] or heard that story? 127

Dave: hours? Yeah.

Jerred: Yeah.

Dave: Heard the story. I haven't seen, [00:22:40] I haven't seen it.

Jerred: Yeah. It's crazy. Um, anyway, let's see. That, that's, I [00:22:45] mean, to be honest, that's most of what they're, they're pushing. I'm trying to see if there's anything else on here.[00:22:50]

Joe: No to it. I'm asking, I was gonna ask, ask Jet GBT [00:22:55] see if they had any, anything. Usually, I mean, I mean they, they, [00:23:00] I've been using it a lot for, for a lot of, uh, random stuff. Sway Pro. Yeah. It's not really, I mean, the [00:23:05] screens always get better. Um, I always want them to upgrade the, uh, heart rate sensor, [00:23:10] and I know they did a decent one, um, not long ago, but I think it's [00:23:15] because.

Is it Polar that has their own patent, like heart rate [00:23:20] sensor on their watches? Because the Polar is supposed to have a really good wrist based heart rate [00:23:25] sensor. Um, I was always interested in that just because I feel like I always wearing my check trap

Jerred: [00:23:30] upgraded to the Epics, which is like not even a thing now at Garment.

Um, [00:23:35] I, I've been fine with the heart rate monitor, like I think it works pretty well. [00:23:40] Dave, you're rocking a car. Oh yeah. I gave you one, right? You're using my old one. [00:23:45] Rocking it. You're seven, which one is that? This seven. I think it's a seven. Yeah.

Joe: Yeah, yeah. [00:23:50] I, I, I've thought about upgrade to the seven Pro, but I have the regular seven, so like, I don't think it's gonna be, make that much of [00:23:55] a difference.

I don't know if there's gonna be much to make me change. I'm not sure what I would need. [00:24:00] Or it's

Jerred: like the new iPhones at this point, man, it's like, oh, you can do calls [00:24:05] and stuff. That's great. Not, I don't like having

Dave: any stuff on the messages or stuff on my watch [00:24:10] anyways, so.

Jerred: No, me either. That's why I'm like you.

They may have reversed. [00:24:15] Made me interested, like made me uninterested, because that was actually

Joe: one of the reasons why I [00:24:20] switched from the Apple Watch because I had to keep going into the watch or like popups or like changing the [00:24:25] music. I had to do it on the, on the, on the watch. But like when you have a sweaty finger, touchscreens don't work very well.[00:24:30]

And I know the seven has a touchscreen, but like I'll flick through, I'll use it a little bit, but not all that much. I [00:24:35] still really like the buttons and, uh, most notifications I'll kind [00:24:40] of have off, but some of 'em I'll, I'll keep.

Jerred: That's what's funny about how I use the Garmin is like [00:24:45] I got so used to whatever the six and seven that I wore, not having [00:24:50] touchscreen, um, or whichever one, my first one didn't have touchscreen.

Maybe it was a six. [00:24:55] And so I just don't ever use touchscreen. Even on my ethics now, I'm just like, I always [00:25:00] use the buttons for everything. The first thing I do when I get a watch and I'm setting it up, they're like, [00:25:05] oh, connect your text messages. I'm like, Nope, nope. I don't. I want, no, I [00:25:10] have no interest in doing that.

So. Yeah, the new, the only thing that would be cool about that is if you [00:25:15] did do a lot of races in like precarious places or something like that. Um, I also [00:25:20] like not having to, uh, carry a phone with me on a run, [00:25:25] but I'm not doing like these long distances where I always kind of tell Emily where I'm [00:25:30] going too.

I'm like, I'm gonna head out the neighborhood and go that way. So like. I'm not back in like an [00:25:35] hour or two. You should probably just head out that direction. See what, see what's going on. [00:25:40]

Joe: You did show off Garmin pay to me one time when we went out for coffee and biscuits. [00:25:45] I never did it on mine.

Jerred: I, I do that.

Yeah. That's, uh, because then you

Joe: don't have to carry your wallet, I guess, [00:25:50] on you. That's just

Jerred: smart sense. Yeah. I should've done that. [00:25:55] I went to the coffee shop the other day and I was like. Ah, I forgotten my wallet. I had forgotten my wallet at home [00:26:00] and I was about to just leave. 'cause like, I hadn't ordered yet, so I was just gonna be like, ah, dang it.[00:26:05]

Uh, and then I was like, oh, wait, I can pay with my watch. I, and so [00:26:10] yeah.

Joe: Pretty cool feature.

No other [00:26:15] technology.

Jerred: All right, well it's a bus. Go buy it if you want. I'm not going [00:26:20] to. It's like 1300 bucks. Yeah. It's just like, and [00:26:25] that's what I'm saying. I got the new iPhone 'cause I needed it. And now that I, 'cause my, my other one was, was trash. It [00:26:30] has been like three years and so I got the new one and I'm like, yep.

Takes calls and [00:26:35] messages, can check my email. It's like, I don't, I don't utilize all the cool features that [00:26:40] they're stopping into technology these days, which of officially makes me old. Uh, but [00:26:45] let's, uh, let's get into some quick life updates. Uh, Joe, how's life, man? How's traversing the globe? [00:26:50]

Joe: Mostly good.

Um, it's becoming harder with three and a half year old [00:26:55] that has way more opinions and no longer napping, so that's not [00:27:00] as fun. So it's, some things are a little bit harder to traverse, but, you know, we're just checking off as many [00:27:05] countries as we can while we're here. Uh, we got three months left and maybe like [00:27:10] six countries left.

I think five or six actually. Yeah, you're right. Nice. [00:27:15] Because we're, we're, we're grouping a a few together. Oh, well no, I think because we just did three, so I think we only have [00:27:20] like three left. Um, yeah. Got some really big Christmas trips planned. [00:27:25] 'cause I'm really, really big on Christmas and I do a lot of awesome Christmas stuff here in, uh, Europe.

[00:27:30] So looking forward to that.

Jerred: Think you guys will check out Russia. When you're in that neck of the woods?

Joe: No, we're [00:27:35] not allowed to. No. Okay. Because the military, same with like Yeah. Anything that far over, I mean the closest [00:27:40] we're gonna get is Fin Finland and we just went to Romania, which isn't that close, but [00:27:45] 'cause like Ukraine's the next over I think, or Moldova, one of those.

Yeah. Close [00:27:50] enough. There's a lot of, uh, Russian adjacent languages [00:27:55] and ex uh, what Soviet Union places that we've been as well. It's close [00:28:00] enough, half credit, half credit.

Jerred: That's what I, I always wanted to check out [00:28:05] Russia until more recent history and then China just never, [00:28:10] never once have I desired to go to China and I think, uh, I'll probably die not having visited that [00:28:15] place.

And that's okay. I.

Joe: Ukraine was actually on my list and I was doing some, uh, a good amount of [00:28:20] research toward it, but obviously you can't do that now. Kinda has, has a good amount of stuff. Um, [00:28:25] yeah, there's always, there's just always more places to go. So we've tried to go to the farther reaches, the farther harder [00:28:30] places to go.

Like, uh, like I said, Romania, Slovakia, Bosnia, stuff like that. Uh, [00:28:35] because Germany's super easy to get to from the States, but the other one's not. Quite as much. So [00:28:40] yeah, just doing that. Getting ready. We finally got, we finally officially got our order so we can actually start like [00:28:45] the moving process and, um, finding a house and stuff, which [00:28:50] kind of related to.

Uh, the, the study one house, 'cause I already talked, [00:28:55] contacted a realtor and they put me into one of their portals to where they, I get housing updates for once that pop up. There was a house that [00:29:00] popped up and there is a sauna in the master bathroom. And I was like, we gotta [00:29:05] do, well if this one's there, we gotta check it out.

It's slightly above our. Or our budget. So I might need to figure out a [00:29:10] way on how to afford that. Get a second job or third, third, fourth job, whatever I'm on.

Jerred: What's funny is it's [00:29:15] like you're like, it's only an extra $400 a month for the sauna House. It's like, well, [00:29:20] you just put that in a savings account.

You could buy a sauna.

Joe: A hundred percent. Yeah. [00:29:25] So, uh, there's, there's been some. Some pretty crazy ones, like some with detached garage. There was [00:29:30] one property that came up. Maybe you, you wanna move again, Jared? Um, it's [00:29:35] like this house that needs not, not only needed to remodel in like this, they had like a big three car garage, [00:29:40] but then behind it, it was almost like one of those warehouse buildings to where they have like garage [00:29:45] bays and there was like four of them.

It was almost like your own little warehouse business [00:29:50] center with unlimited garages and spaces and like. [00:29:55] You, everybody in your family could have their own bedroom, garage space in this warehouse, [00:30:00] like, and it was all on the property. So I was like, that was, that was crazy. Huge project. Not interested, but that would be pretty [00:30:05] cool.

Jerred: Yeah. I'm trying to stay away from projects now. I'm officially, I'm officially [00:30:10] burned out. Like it took a while, but I am, now I am at my wits end [00:30:15] into the rope, like whatever you wanna say. I'm there. That's where I'm at for the next couple months. [00:30:20] Yeah, I just wanna move into a house. Yeah. I just wanna have a, a place we're gonna be moving at the same time [00:30:25] to two hours.

I think I could sit down a normal shower. Those things would be amazing.

Joe: [00:30:30] Yeah. That's a bit, uh, winding down here in Spain to get back to the [00:30:35] states. Um. Looking forward to get back to the states for for sure. Even if we've [00:30:40] enjoyed all the traveling that we've been doing, uh, I'd still wanna get back.

There's a lot of conveniences and things you're [00:30:45] used to, and especially Spain. They're kind of way behind the times with a lot of stuff.

Jerred: Like [00:30:50] internet. Yeah, yeah.

Joe: Internet, food delivery. Normal business [00:30:55] hours.

Jerred: How about you, Dave? [00:31:00]

Dave: No major life updates from last week. Uh. How much has a, nothing crazy

Jerred: [00:31:05] happened in the last seven days.

Dave: I mean, lots of, uh, crazy moments with, uh, three [00:31:10] under, well, four, two, and zero. But, um, yeah, nothing, nothing too [00:31:15] eventful. I did, uh, it was funny, I had a buddy catching up on some of the GGA [00:31:20] podcasts. He had actually followed you, Jared, from a while back and done programming a long time [00:31:25] ago before he even knew, before he moved out to Alabama and got connected with him.

Uh, [00:31:30] but he was listening. He was like. Yeah, no, I was just thinking of these goals I want to do and I was like, I was like, I [00:31:35] want to deadlift 500 pounds, squat 400 pounds, bench 300 pounds, and [00:31:40] like, and do a running goal with it. And he's like, oh. And he was like, he's like, okay, I'll come back to it. He's like, I [00:31:45] gotta catch up on these podcasts.

And he listened to the first one and I was talking about the goal I was doing. He is like, all right, we're doing this [00:31:50] together. This is, uh, this is meant to be. So I've roped one person in on it already, unintentionally. And uh, [00:31:55] we'll see if anyone else comes along for it.

Jerred: Yeah, I'm out. [00:32:00] Um, what was the goal again?

Dave: Uh, 500 pound deadlift, 400 pound squat, [00:32:05] 300 pound bench, and a sub 20 5K in one hour. [00:32:10]

Jerred: All in the same hour. I was out before. You said all in the

Joe: [00:32:15] same hour. You could have said all in the same week.

Dave: I gotta get a base, I [00:32:20] gotta get a baseline test before I even see, uh, I I could be really far off on this.

We'll see. [00:32:25] Yeah, like it sounds good. It sounds cool, but yeah, that's why I don't wanna test it. So in my mind it's still achievable. [00:32:30]

Jerred: I think it's doable, man. Anything's doable with enough time [00:32:35] and training. Um, yeah, for me, [00:32:40] no, no big updates either. Uh, you know, just, just hacking away at this, uh, [00:32:45] getting our house done, the gym's done, uh, office is done.

And so, yeah, I've just [00:32:50] been sticking to, to training, you know, getting everything [00:32:55] in that I can. Um, I'm trying to think if anything crazy happened this past week. [00:33:00] Not really. I'm like not running at all anymore, I think is one of the biggest changes. [00:33:05] Um, but predominantly moved to machines for most, [00:33:10] most cardio stuff.

I just kind of, and I got burnt out on running. I do think that there's like a cumulative [00:33:15] load with running that if your form's not perfect, which is very hard to do, uh, I [00:33:20] think it can just, it's the cumulative stress that I think can add to injury [00:33:25] if, uh, if you're already kind of in that camp. And so. I have an [00:33:30] Airdyne and a rower, the Rogue Echo bike and the rower and I, those two, like, [00:33:35] I mean, there's like no impact, right?

It's like the, the best way to tax your [00:33:40] cardiovascular system without having to have like any impact. It just sucks. That's all. It's, it just sucks. And, [00:33:45] and trains, trains you. Uh, so I've been doing those a lot more and what I'm curious to find out is [00:33:50] if this will affect my running. Um, [00:33:55] I've, I have no, um.

Pipe dream of like, oh, I'm just gonna do [00:34:00] Airdyne for six months and I'll be able to go run a six minute mile. I'm more like, how bad, [00:34:05] how bad is this gonna affect my running? Uh, but at the same time, like, does it matter? And who [00:34:10] knows? Maybe it won't that much. I think, I think dyne bike activities translate [00:34:15] themselves to more to the cyclical nature of, uh, running.

Like if I only did [00:34:20] rowing, I think I probably would have a harder time trying to get back on the road and, and run. But, [00:34:25] um. A lot of airdyne work lately. It's been fun.

Joe: Yeah. I've been forced [00:34:30] to stop running because my, my heel spur, bone spur in my heel is, I, I [00:34:35] won't say reaggravated. It was always there.

It's just, uh, I've, so just to back up, I got a, [00:34:40] I found out last year I have a pretty significant bone spur on my heel. And no amount of PT helped [00:34:45] it because of where, where it's growing. I got PRP injections, uh, for it, and they actually really [00:34:50] helped, they relieved it for about three months and I just went this past week to get an, another appointment to do one at the [00:34:55] hospital here.

And they were like, yeah, we're not doing those anymore. I'm like, oh, great. So I'm [00:35:00] kind of screwed there because that was the only thing that was actually helping. Um, so now I gotta figure out, uh, [00:35:05] I'm gonna meet with the. Doctor in a couple weeks. 'cause of course there's no appointment anytime soon to see what [00:35:10] they could do.

But even the last time when I met with the previous one, he was like, this is all we can do other than, [00:35:15] you know. And surgery is basically, it's basically inoperable because they would have to detach my Achilles for where it's [00:35:20] at. So like I. It hurts to even walk right now. Like I'm kind of hobbling just walking [00:35:25] because of it hurts.

So it definitely, definitely can't run. I'm doing all my sprints on the Airdyne, [00:35:30] um, which, which is fine. It's still pretty hard. I did one minute sprints yesterday and it, it [00:35:35] definitely worked me really well. And, and I'm, I'm walking, I, I walk my walking treadmill and I'll go on, [00:35:40] um, walks outside. You know, just having pain while walking just sucks.

And I'm [00:35:45] not sure how I'm gonna, how I'm gonna treat it. I dunno if you have any input there. PT Dave, [00:35:50]

Dave: I mean, something like that. It's, uh, you're, I [00:35:55] don't wanna say you're past the point, like when pain's that bad, it's figuring out whatever can help with the pain. And if PRP was the only [00:36:00] thing, and that's not available, that's know, it's gonna come down to modifying to some degree, but getting to the, [00:36:05] you know, heel uh, bone sparing can happen over time [00:36:10] from.

Poor mechanics obviously, and mobility and imbalances, but I don't say you're past that point, but [00:36:15] it's like figuring out if you can, if addressing some of those does help with some of the pain, um, [00:36:20] that's something we maybe have to talk offline about. 'cause that's not a, not a blanket answer for something like that, but Yeah.

Um, [00:36:25] yeah, I mean it's, it's getting pain leveled down first though. If, I mean, not doing anything, obviously [00:36:30] that flares that up.

Jerred: Yeah, so that's, so he [00:36:35] just said is you need to go back in time and work on your mobility.

Dave: Back in time. [00:36:40]

Jerred: I have tendonitis in

Joe: my Achilles. I don't know what I can do about

Jerred: that.

Joe: I've had that for like 20 years.[00:36:45]

Well you gotta go back 21 years then.

Jerred: Then

Joe: you gotta go. Yeah, I guess so.

Jerred: Back one further. [00:36:50]

Joe: It probably led to poor mechanics because of they were always tight and and hurting. [00:36:55] That's interesting. I better get a good VA claim on the [00:37:00] military.

Jerred: There you go. Percent disabled. [00:37:05] Alright, I think we're gonna wrap it up here.

Uh. That's it. You know, [00:37:10] I think if you're gonna have any big takeaways here, get in the sauna, make sure [00:37:15] it's really hot, or just exercise more frequently. Add additional training [00:37:20] sessions, um, recovery walks, recovery, air dynes, whatever, uh, whatever you [00:37:25] have time for. And then if you want to buy one and you don't want to go to the super expensive route, go check out that [00:37:30] guy on Instagram.

Just so no one's, uh, confused. It's not our Joe. [00:37:35] It was a different guy.

Joe: Nope.

Jerred: Yeah. Uh oh. I have our travel pictures. [00:37:40] All you see are travel pictures. There's nothing, nothing on here about sauna. [00:37:45] Um, but anyway, for all of our athletes who've been doing the training and the programming, staying consistent, uh, really [00:37:50] appreciate you.

Um, keep at it. And then for anyone who wants to learn more about Garage [00:37:55] Gym Athlete, sign up for one of our programs. You can go to garage gym athlete.com, sign up for free trial. [00:38:00] That's it for this one. Remember, if you don't kill comfort, comfort will kill you.