Protein & Fat - Weekend Warrior Fueling Series Part 2 of 3

Hey, Athletes! This week we are diving into part 2 and 3 of fueling for endurance so make sure to catch the latest episode! 

Episode 119 of The Garage Gym Athlete Podcast is up!

Protein & Fat - Weekend Warrior Fueling Series Part 2 of 3

For this week’s episode the four coaches are back again. This week’s study is a continuation of the fueling series for your endurance. This time the coaches cover protein and fat. They give a thorough breakdown of both macros, good applications, takeaways, and how to kill comfort with this portion of the study! This week’s topic is about the focus of the coaches training. Each goes over what their focus is and how their training looks in order to hit certain goals. The Meet Yourself Saturday workout is Dia De Los Muertos! Just in time for the Halloween weekend! 

If you haven’t already, be sure to subscribe to the Garage Gym Athlete podcast either on Stitcher, iTunes, or Google Play by using the link below:

• Subscribe on any device HERE 

IN THIS 75-MINUTE EPISODE WE DISCUSS:

• Dia De Los Muertos 
• Fueling Series
• Training Focus for Coaches  
• Protein and Fat
• Macros and How to Change Your Mindset
• Tips For MYS
• Updates and Announcements
• And A LOT MORE!!

Diving Deeper… 

If you want to go a little bit deeper on this episode, here are some links for you: 

Study of the Week  

• Nutrition and Supplement Update for the Endurance Athlete: Review and Recommendations

Garage Gym Athlete Workout of the Week 

Be sure to listen to this week’s episode:

• Protein & Fat - Weekend Warrior Fueling Series Part 2 of 3

— 

Thanks for listening to the podcast, and if you have any questions be sure to add it to the comments below!

To becoming better!

Jerred

Transcript:

Jerred Moon 0:02
All right, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the garage mathlete podcast gentlemen here with Kyle Shrum, Ashley Hicks and Joe Courtney, everyone, how's it going? So we've gotten some feedback that they liked the weekend we're fueling series listeners. Hopefully, we dive in more today and get even more out of it. I think carbohydrates are the, you know, pretty popular, more well known. I would say most people who are not even in fitness in nutrition, know something about carbohydrates and an endurance event like yeah, carbo loading, like people know the basics of those kind of things, maybe not the numbers and everything else. But where I would say most people don't know anything, is one of the things we're talking about today. And that's protein in fat. So to me, these are kind of the the Forgotten macronutrients when we're talking about events. Everyone knows protein is important fat has been demonized for a long time to the point where people don't really know like, Is it good, is it bad I don't know. And so we're gonna be diving into those today and getting more to the science so we're covering this study more so it was nutrition and supplement update for the endurance athlete review and recommendations it was done in 2019. And we're talking about sections 3.2 and 3.3 today which which will be protein and fat. I'm gonna I'm gonna kick it off with just the overall statement that they said because I agree with it when it comes to protein and then we can get into the different sections. So the different sections are protein overall, daily protein requirements, pre during and post exercise, protein requirements, and then fat those are kind of the different categories here. But what they said right at the opening of protein in this study, I thought was very true. They said traditionally, endurance athletes have placed less of a priority on protein in comparison to carbohydrate. However, adequate protein intake and timing of intake are critical to any athlete whether endurance or resistance trained. So this is it's a big deal, it's not like something that you can just, you know, yeah, I'll get some protein later. The timing is very important as well as the overall amount and I feel like there are a lot of like numbers and things and I don't want to take anything away from any of you and so I will kind of fill in the gaps here when we're talking about protein if if I feel like I caught something that that was missed, but let's talk about protein, we could probably open it up to protein and daily protein requirements as opposed to opening up the whole thing I think 3.2 is too small of a section to discuss in any real detail. But let's What do you guys pull from 3.2 the overall protein thing and then 3.2 point one which was daily protein requirements.

Ashley Hicks 2:45
So for the protein I felt like they talked about that they put less of a priority on it endurance athletes do but I feel like working with you know clients and then women's health track and having a lot of coaching experience a lot of athletes I feel like actually don't eat the amount of protein that they need. And so I definitely loved that they talked about that it was less of a priority and that they're probably eating more carbohydrates than they actually need but so for the daily protein requirements, we we've talked about timing on here to about they talked about post as well as during and pre but they talked about zero to two hours post exercise which we've always said like at least try to get it in within the hour I'm pretty sure as what we've always recommended but the thing I wanted to highlight with that was they talked about a quality protein source because I feel like a lot of people are getting protein supplementation and it might not be the best quality for them. So that was something that I wanted to hit on and then it talked about that if you have too much protein that it's actually not beneficial and it sounds like you need to consume the protein like throughout the day like don't just like try to Front Load it and like try to get all your protein macros in prior to you know that you have to like actually go throughout you know, I space it out a couple hours each day you know, three meals a day if you're having or you know plus a post workout shake or I'll get into the pre for the next one I'll let one or the other guys hit that but

Joe Courtney 4:26
yeah just piggybacking off of those the the one you're talking about with the moderate to high protein they compare there's a study that compared 1.5 grams per kilogram versus three grams per kilogram and they yield the same results same performance same gains, if you will. So overloading on protein it's just stuffing yourself the protein doesn't isn't a magical you know I'm gonna get a whole lot better. It's just you just still hit the moderate

Jerred Moon 4:51
and really only costing you money at a certain point. Yeah, yeah,

Joe Courtney 4:55
the bathroom. Probably constipation too. Yeah. And then yeah, And the other one that and even I'm going off of what you said, for quality protein versus the source, that's another thing to highlight is that they didn't find, you know, whey plant, beef chick, whatever kind of protein they did long as the source was good, then it was pretty much equal as far as like standards go. So it's just, it just depends on the amino acid breakdown. And if the sources is is actually good, and clean Protein Protein, then I mean, all of us have pretty much to use different proteins just because of whatever our own issues got stuff, skin, things, whatever we can tolerate, just because of. But yeah, and then, one other thing that I'll just I'll bring up is that was pretty interesting was, one, there was one thing I missed what the ISSN stood for, it was one of the like, they reference it a lot to like, you know, this group standards. And one of the standards was the recommended point to five grams per kilogram per hour during an event, which is super high. But then toward the end of this protein section, the actual people who did the study of the breakdown said they actually recommended to do about that much about a serving anywhere from 20 to 40 grams, every three to five hours during an event. If you're doing that, and also in the head. You're jumping. Oh, okay. Yeah, I was like, I'm not related. Okay, well, then. Let's rewind.

Kyle Shrum 6:34
So we could just

Jerred Moon 6:35
dive into all of it. But then yeah, I'm just gonna have too much to say,

Kyle Shrum 6:40
I'm gonna go back to just kind of the very first part of it. And like what it talks about, I have placed less of a priority on protein, comparison to the carb to carbs. And my my takeaway from that was just what something that we talked about a lot on the podcast, talk about it a lot in our community, just with our program, and our training and thing is like strength is the base is the foundation, right? Everything that you do, you need to be strong, right. And I'm not saying you need to be as strong as you can possibly be. Right, especially since we're talking about we're framing this conversation with endurance athletes. And so endurance athletes are not going to be as focused on building muscle or building strength as athletes for other types of events. But endurance athletes still need to focus on strength, they still have to be strong, no matter what it is that you're doing, you need muscle in order to do it, those muscles need to be strong. And so when we're talking about protein, we're talking about building muscle, we're talking about supporting muscle, we're talking about all those different kinds of things to me, it just, that's something you can't, you don't need to neglect protein in your diet or in your training plan, because you need muscle, and you need to be strong. And so that's just kind of what it called back to me is something that we talked to people about all the time is you need to be strong in a muscle. So talking about protein, it's important, it's important for everybody, no matter what it is that you're doing.

Jerred Moon 8:06
Yeah, and I think, importantly, he said, You don't have to be as strong as you possibly could be. But maybe just a certain amount of strength in relation to your body weight per our standards, right? Like, and if you actually look at our standards of strength training, they're not ridiculous. Even the competitor level, which is our highest level we think you should be is not like absurdly strong. I mean, it's strong, don't get me wrong, it is a very strong human being. But it's not like it's nowhere close to what a let's say, CrossFit Games athlete or power lifter would be touching, well, maybe power lifter in relation to their body weight, but now they'd still be stronger than that. So anyway, the that's how we feel strength fits in here. You know, strength is very important, and it's going to make you better. And everything in protein is a major, major factor in that. So the actual ingestion points. for athletes, they the range that they said was 1.2 to two grams per kilogram a day. And so for me, 185 pound male, that's around 100 to 170 grams of protein per day. And I'm perfectly agree with those. And you know, a lot of times when we get into recommendations, like when we're talking about carbohydrates last week, we're all kind of like, no, that's a little high, right? I mean, maybe you can pull it off if you but we do think there are overall recommendations for just carbohydrates for athletes on a daily basis. You can do that. By the way. I'm not saying you can't we just feel a little uncomfortable with our experience and our bodies things that we've done. I don't necessarily think it's to your detriment. There's still science behind everything that was mentioned last week, but this one I just fully agree with like 100 to 170 grams for me per day. When a lot of times when you get into these kind of research or study or let's just say bro science where people are recommending bodybuilders they're going to two and three. I've heard up to two and a half grams per pound of bodyweight before like, and we're not talking we're not talking about kilograms anymore talking about so it's 185 pounds times two and a half you know, and I just can never get on board of those recommendations. And there is a certain point where protein became became become hard on the kidneys, that's it's a fact. So what a lot of people this is where the vegans typically go to try and like this prove that you don't, you don't need a lot of protein but it takes a lot of protein it would take the 400 grams of protein per day and most of the research that's actually out there with incredibly high protein diets for bodybuilders they put them through a lab and there's so no detriment to their kidneys whatsoever so I really feel like really high protein diets matched with physical activity you're very rarely going to have a problem with your kidneys or anything else. Yes If you are 65 years old, you do know sort of training whatsoever and I try and put you on a 300 gram per day protein diet I might shut your kidneys down you know, but that's not who's listening to this and why you shouldn't be concerned about protein and kidneys for the most part. And one thing that I pulled out of 3.2 point one daily protein required requirements was they gave a range right it was 1.2 grams per kilogram to 2.0 and they say you should kind of fluctuate that range based on training and you know, we're recording this A day after I was just in a car for 13 hours with my family and I probably ingested if I had to honestly think about it like 70 grams of protein in total yesterday maybe that's it and I didn't need that much either. And I just but I knew my body didn't need anything I was like you're sitting all day like you're not going to need you know any amount of carbohydrate basically to operate today protein you know just to keep things going but like if you can kind of look at your training like that you're like I'm more on like three block right now I'm only hitting it three days a week you probably don't need these top end of the ranges we're giving but if you're like hard to kill every day Murph twice a week let's go let's max out these ranges and then the other thing they mentioned was and this is a thing that more strength athletes get scared of is that endurance training is catabolic mean it's it's basically eating away it's breaking down metabolic is building up catabolic is building down or anabolic is building up chasing and catabolic is tearing down and this is what strength athletes more specifically bodybuilders and and sometimes power lifters get scared of any sort of endurance training, eating away at your muscle is how they kind of look at it. And that's really only true under two scenarios. One you're training outside of zones you really shouldn't like, I'm going to go on a five mile run today and just be in zone five the whole time. Yeah, that's gonna be bad and and that is what strength athletes do, because they don't know how to train endurance. So they just run as hard as they can. They think that they hate running because their their heart rate is jacked way too high they're running is horrible. And yeah, it is eating your muscle away when you do it that way. So that's one thing to note. It can't be catabolic, but it's not if you're hitting it around. The second thing I want to hit on is if you're properly fuel that probably doesn't matter. If I'm going on an hour long run, and I've taken in the proper dosage of which we're gonna talk about a minute of protein and carbohydrates before the run, my body will rely heavily on what I've given it and not trying to pull from you know, these these stores that I have unless you actually have to tap into them. And so that's about it. The The other thing I pulled from that was muscle protein synthesis and we're also going to talk about this in the next section but muscle protein synthesis has a window and it has a cap. So if you have like this 24 hour window to kind of

get in with your muscle protein synthesis window but they said the ideal post training our zero to two hour window at point two five to three grams per kilogram so that's 21 grams to 25 grams post workout and that's all I'll say because that leads right into the pre during and post exercise protein requirements but this whole window of gains thing there is some truth to it, but you actually have a much larger window than most people think up to 24 hours for it to still be effective. So that's kind of daily protein requirements. Everyone can go calculate those on your own that's about how much protein you should be taking in if you have a regular training schedule now getting to 3.2 point two pre during and post exercise protein requirements let's start with Joe cuz you're already diving in here man What did you find what did you find interesting here and and sorry to cut you off earlier but I just wanted to follow this direction.

Kyle Shrum 14:35
The rest of the data is now caught up with Joe

Joe Courtney 14:38
since I did not say anything earlier this just didn't happen. They were talking about how for fueling that if that whoever This is one of his organization was recommended point two five grams per kilogram per hour during an event but the the the people putting together this this study and break down actually Recommended, basically, that's set, whatever your serving size is 20 to 40, whatever your weight is, would be that serving every three to five hours. So for most people, you might only need one serving during your event. Because unless you're doing like a really ultra distance six plus hour thing, which was good to know, I know, when we've done certain events before, I've been so worried about getting protein during, it's been more before, like, I made sure to hit a smoothie or something before, and then I know, like 334 hours, I'm still good for it. But toward the end, I might think about it, but other than that, it just comes down to recovery. But they found that it did help with feelings of with soreness, and limited the muscle damage, during which, in the long run, if you're doing a longer event can really help pay off, you know, it's not all about the carbs and the energy, it's the you're still kind of fighting against your muscles and repairing that. So that was the main one that I found for during and then as always, the gut is going to be to kind of evolve how you do your doses before or during. And you can't just, you know, practice how you play, you can't just like jump right into it and think you're gonna you're gonna be okay, so,

Jerred Moon 16:15
and the I S is the International Society of sports nutrition.

Joe Courtney 16:20
Yes, their recommendations was pretty, pretty high for per hour during. So

Kyle Shrum 16:29
it's like it calls back to what we were talking about last week as well with carbs and just kind of the point that was made about the the length of your event, you know, we were kind of talking about anything under 90 minutes, like your fueling strategy for something less than 90 minutes, or especially like under 60 minutes, you know, I think Jared made the point, like if your event is less than 60 minutes, you're not going to need to think about fueling during that event very much at all. Because it's you're just not going to be moving your events not going to last long enough where fueling gearing is going to make much of a difference. versus if it's something over 90 minutes. Like that's when the fueling during conversation kind of comes into play a little bit more and especially thinking about protein like, like Joe was talking about, like events that we've done together as a team in the past. And like, I wasn't really even thinking about protein during the event, like especially I'm especially thinking about the Spartan races, the beast that we did, like, even as long as that event was for me, I wasn't really thinking about the protein that I needed during I had protein the night before, I had a little bit of protein in the morning of and then I made sure to hit protein after the event was over. But like during the event, I wasn't really focused on the protein, maybe I should have been but I wasn't really focused as much on the protein for getting that event done. And I was focused more on on other types of fuel to get through the event. So that's something else to to think about is what kind of event are you doing? And how long is it gonna take? And that kind of comes into play as well with protein recommendations?

Ashley Hicks 18:08
Yeah, I think one of the biggest takeaways for me is it says if tolerable, and they talked about, you know, gi issues and whatnot, because you know, for if we're doing endurance stuff, if this is what we're reaching out to you, I kind of agree with you call maybe we should have, because I want to say we all sat around and we definitely had some protein with some with some carbohydrates in it, which you know, and then we also definitely ate a lot of Emily's chili afterwards when we were done. But during we just more focused on like the cliff tools and the, the salt biscuits and all that stuff. So it makes me wonder, like, what would have been different if we would have ingested protein for that amount of time. But, you know, if, if you're not doing an endurance thing, if you're just like, you know, when we train daily, 60 minutes, maybe 90 minutes, whatever it is that you are training for, I don't necessarily think you know, you need the potentially the, the protein prior to your training. You know, lots of people workout fasted. So, again, I just, that's what I took away from that it's if it was tolerable for you, um, but the added carbs they talked about was it helped with the muscle glycogen synthesis. But for me, it said, if an athlete eats a lot of carbs, it doesn't seem to help them. And I feel like the amount of carbs that they recommended were already high. So it just made me question like, what did they feel was too many carbs for? I don't know. I just was like, if you're already recommending 400 to 500 grams of carbohydrates daily, what you know, what's your, what's your takeaway on high carb. And then a couple of things I'll hit on, they talked about loosing content, which we've talked about here and the podcast before and bcaas what I found interesting, they said that bcaas by themselves actually didn't, didn't seem to help stimulate the muscle protein synthesis, which I mean makes sense. But I know a lot of people that take just straight bcaas trying to get the, you know, amino acids that they can. But what they recommended was find a good quality protein supplement, which does this sound familiar? That has leucine, and bcaas. And the, you know, what you need to get all the adequate amount of, of good things to help you know, with that muscle protein synthesis,

Joe Courtney 20:34
it was an awesome thing that I saw the head on, because it's just some people that take bcaas just as pre workout and like some claim that you can still take those and be fasted. So it's like they're hacking it, but it's, it's still fairly early.

Jerred Moon 20:48
And I'll pick up there with with leucine, because we've been we have been talking about loosing for years. And it's finally like it's, it's caught up. And I'm not just talking about the scientific research. I'm talking because the reason I start talking about loosing was because of scientific research. Like several years ago, I was just kind of ahead of the curve a little bit by noticing like bcaas are kind of crap. Like it all comes down to like leucine specifically, especially if you're taking in complete proteins like me towards whatever protein source that you have. And it all seemed like to stimulate muscle protein synthesis the most it seemed to be the leucine content. And so I stumbled across that but the who had not picked up on this information, where supplement makers, they weren't reporting, they weren't making sure there's enough leucine, it wasn't a concern. And if you're only pushing whey protein, you're gonna be fine. Whey Protein has the most leucine, you know, biggest bang for your buck that you can get. But a lot of people don't want whey protein can't consume whey protein. And so that's where it was getting difficult from a supplementation standpoint is like, if it wasn't whey protein, nothing else, like stood up to the leucine content or the effectiveness. And so now a lot of these manufacturers have caught up, like I'm currently using on it plant based protein. I don't even think it tastes that good. But it has the best leucine content. Obviously not a sponsored, right. It's not like it doesn't it's like I have consumed way better tasting protein powders. But this is a plant based protein with the highest level of leucine. And so I'm like, cool, I'll be here for now. And now I already have like two or three proteins on my list that have come out recently that have matched that same thing. So now it's just becoming a norm. It's not like one company does it all the companies are figuring it out. But if you are taking a plant based protein from anywhere else, go find out what the leucine content is. We've been saying that for a long time. And typically you you'd want they said 700 to 700 milligrams to three to three grams. And three grams is typically typically my recommendation just based from the research. So you want to you want to look at that now diving into their pre during post. Yeah, so it seems like pre exercise dose of point three grams per kilogram of protein, according to gi tolerance. So for me, they're talking about taking 25 grams of pre protein pre workout, I don't think that's that crazy. It's really just like, eating before you train. I mean, you should always be consuming. I don't know if I'm ever consuming less than 20 grams of protein when I go to eat food. If you are maybe, maybe take that into account, you know, make sure you're getting that protein dose. And then yeah, during I have played around with a during. And I don't know like there are these carbohydrate mixed with protein supplements like I think you can was one that I mentioned last time that I don't use anymore, but it's primarily a carbohydrate supplement, but I think they have a carb plus protein now it's probably whey protein. Go figure. But like, that's, I think they have it like other like endurance supplement companies are starting to catch on. And there's not an easy way to do it. So I mean, I think that if you're going to be serious about consuming any sort of protein during your event, like it almost has to be in liquid format. And so you're going to have to supplement because I personally hitting on Chris Morgan, again, don't want to eat a Big Mac or whatever, during my event, even though as in the amount of protein, but hey, he might be ahead of the curve here with the protein there. But yeah, it seems like it's important. And the biggest thing that I pulled out was no study shows that it hinders performance. And that's with taking protein before during or after they they didn't come across any studies where they're like, Yeah, I was taking 30 grams of protein during my run and it really slowed me down or like no, there was nothing that hindered it. All the available available evidence shows that it improves either that your performance that day or your recovery or whatever so it's definitely something worth doing. The actual amount pre was point three grams per kilograms for people want to calculate this out. And point two five grams per kilogram protein per hour when taken along with carbohydrate to minimize potential muscle damage. So there are your official numbers and recommendations.

Ashley Hicks 25:16
What do you think you would have to do like for the beast, you just have to like, again carry your fanny pack you know there you go Joe and then put just the supplementation and your fanny pack and every time you go to a water station you just put this thing in and shake it

Jerred Moon 25:30
up or yeah I think for a beast you'd have to do something like that like what I did during what is the company it's I don't even know they're still company is called three fuel. Have you guys ever tried that something out. So they were ahead of the curve like way ahead of the curve of Brian McKinsey. If you guys are familiar with him, yeah. Popular across the world. He started a company several years ago called three fuel and it was a carbohydrate and protein supplement. So I've actually used that during 100 mile bike races. And what I've done is those shirts the jerseys that I use normally have pockets in the back. And so I would just have like two or three like serving sizes in a Ziploc bag but the easy thing with a bike is you have two water bottles attached to the frame at all times right so like it's easy to just throw it in a water bottle and mix it up but as far as the Spartan Race yeah that would be that would be hard to do is like yeah, give me this water like and then you just like trying to shake it with your hand or mix it with your finger. Yeah, like it i do think that's why protein during a race is complicated because if you're also serious about your time at all, that's that's time consuming. So some sort of liquid based and I mean like not mixable like a pure liquid they have those on the market like something you could carry might be the best option but I don't know how much it's going to add to your performance as long as you have the carbohydrates dialed in so how necessary it is I don't know but yeah, I've done I forgot I've done that on on during the races of the 100 mile bike race I always have protein and carbs but my reasoning behind that wasn't protein will give me performance it was just like this is a long day. Yeah. I can't know protein today you know so like I have to have me some protein so that's that's why that decision was made

Ashley Hicks 27:21
really good right now like it? Yeah. Okay,

Jerred Moon 27:25
so I think that was the only other thing I want to say. I said, from a scientific standpoint, dairy based protein, whey casein, and whole milk, lean mag lean mix, lean meats, eggs, all stimulate muscle protein synthesis effectively. However, dairy based proteins may be superior to others sources due to higher leucine content and improved digestion. absorption kinetics of the EIA is found in liquid base dairy foods. So there you go. If you like whey want to stick with whey no problems with whey you should probably take away that's I don't because I can't I would if I could, but I can't so I don't know way Yeah, no way for me. So yeah, that's that on pre during and post exercise now that's all protein we could talk about fat now. You see there are a lot of very little to say on fat I haven't seen anyone's notes but um, let's let's dive into it. Probably the most forgotten macronutrient when it comes to weekend warrior fueling so fat What do we have? Joe?

Joe Courtney 28:34
Well, I think for fueling like, I mean, if you just think about fat, caloric wise it's going to be the best bang for your buck and I'm just thinking race day and all those and anytime like working out and stuff, I want less volume in my stomach like even drinking water sloshing around sucks and when you're doing these endurance events and needing these calories and stuff that is going to give you the most bang for your buck for volume for calories and energy and we've also already talked about being fat adapted and training low and how that's going to be the most efficient for you so that adapting to being to using fat as fuel you know we we Yeah, it's I think it's gonna be it's even showed to be a bit better on here if you but if you need to prepare yourself for it and that's the main thing side effects is I think that even they eliminated it onto here is that you actually have to like put in the work and actually make yourself fat adapted or else and can you train low or else you're just gonna feel like crash. I don't know when I first started doing that and others. You can't just be like, you know what I've been eating 40% 45% plus carbs. I'm just gonna go and be fat adapted. I'm gonna go and train fasted and start eating high fat and I'll be fine. And then you just gonna crash and pass out and be done.

Jerred Moon 29:54
You also can't do both. And this is why I think a lot of athletes miss it too. You can't be moderate to high carb and moderate to high fat, which is a fine like you can that's fine for a diet, but you're still not actually that fat adapted, your body may be more accustomed to it. But if you're like, you know what, let's chug some olive oil during my next event, you're just gonna poop your pants all over the place. And that's not gonna be a very fun event for you. So they're the adaptation that Joe was talking about, is, is a vital importance in the fat discussion here. So just keep that in mind.

Joe Courtney 30:26
I'll pass it off from there.

Ashley Hicks 30:29
Well, I they talked about to training low, and we hit on this last time. So with, especially with the ultra endurance athletes who are not like tapping into the higher zones, they talked about, you know, becoming fat adapted and training low just that says, obviously, it promotes weight loss. But for I found very interesting that it's, for me kind of highlighted, it depends on the type of race you're doing, which we have said this multiple times. Now, if you're doing an endurance race, that you for some reason have to tap in the zone four to five the whole time, then this is not, it basically said that it didn't really work for people that were in higher intensities. And so if you're doing an endurance, though, and an instance sort of endurance race, you're not going to be in zone four or five, to me doing it wrong. Yeah, you're not doing it correctly, you're

Jerred Moon 31:22
gonna last very long, but the worst race of your life,

Ashley Hicks 31:25
right? So to me, it shows like, okay, you obviously need to consider fat in your diet. They did talk about fish oil, and some omega threes, and CLS. And they mentioned it with overtraining, which, if you're following our in deer track, you're not going to be overtraining, so you should be fine there. But I think fish oil is a great supplementation for anyone to take. And then for me, fats just go further than carbs, just exactly what Joe said, like, it's that whole train low effect, where you're tapping into that fat burning energy system, instead of burning glycogen the entire time. And I feel like it's, it's not a bad way to go.

Kyle Shrum 32:12
So I think, just go into the whole mindset around fat as well. And I, I'm going to get to this later with my killing comfort thing, too. But they even talked about this directly in the study that says, It's not to say that fat intake is irrelevant to athletes, fats are fundamental components of cell membranes, playing roles in signaling and transport nerve function, providing insulation and vital organ protection, and are the source of essential dietary fatty acids. And so it talks about how like, by avoiding fat in general, you are missing out on all the benefits that fat gives you. Like your body actually needs it. You know what I mean? And I think fat has kind of been demonized. I think maybe carbs are taking a little bit of that recently, of being a little more demonized. And then that used to be, but fat has really been demonized for a long, long time. And people just have this, this negative mentality towards fat in general, and your body needs it, you know what I mean? Your body needs fat. And so but taking it out of the equation and ignoring it and not having a plan for the fat that you take it and this doesn't mean like all fats are good, it's definitely not true, right, you still have to focus on the source of the fat, like what it is that you're eating, you have to eat the good stuff. And so that your body uses it effectively. But before you even start talking about fueling, and how fat needs to work into your training plan, you need to examine your mindset around just fat in general. And I feel like it a lot of people have just this negative mindset towards fat in general, whereas actually, your body just needs it. You know, I mean, if you're neglecting it, it's going to affect your performance because it's going to affect just you being a human being from a day to day basis. And so like, I think something we also had to think about is like, just what is our mindset towards fat in general? And how are we working that into our daily diet, regardless of what we're training for, what our performance goals are.

Jerred Moon 34:16
100% agree that Kyle and to sit on like fat quality, I think that's really important and often overlooked as well. So I mentioned I was on a 13 hour road trip with my family yesterday. And highway driving and healthy eating. Don't they don't go hand in hand Emily and I still we still try. And this is our try trying yesterday. So we we were just completely out of options and the kids were like, We need to eat like there we cannot you cannot push us any further give us food. So because we're trying to make it home as towards the end of the trip. And so we stopped at Panda Express, and I don't think Panda Express is good by any means. But Emily, and I got it. Like, chicken, rice, broccoli, and I was like this should be fine. I felt horrible after. It's because of the fat they cooked in the oil. They cook it type of fat, too, right? It's the type of fat it's this oil that they cook it in, right? And that's what made it horrible. I didn't, I had like a slight headache afterwards, I did not feel good even though I'm eating rice, protein and vegetables, right? Like that's, that was all I was consuming. But the type of fat that you're you're consuming makes a huge difference. And it's little things like that, that made me realize that even more is like that was for anyone else in the world. That was a healthy meal, right? But you're like, Well, no, let's really talk about it wasn't to be, but I mean, if your food can be served to you, and like under 60 seconds, it's never really gonna be a good choice for some reason. But talking about fat in more general terms. The big takeaway I got from that entire section 3.3 was you can't overlook fat and hormones. And I'm not going to dive into it any further than that, you can go look at it, if you want to dive into the study more, but I mean, they talk about all sorts of different hormones, and its relations to fat. And that's kind of how I think about fat. It's a lot more than just this fuel. Like there's a huge hormonal component to your body, what it can produce what it can synthesize, when you are consuming the correct amount of fats. And so you do see problems in athletes, not primarily physique based athletes who think that they should cut off out of their diet. And they normally have problems, they struggle like testosterone and like other things, so you can't cut fat out of your diet, no matter what you think, or you've heard, that is very important to brain health, overall health. And that was kind of their point. Now getting into the actual, like fueling and fat. Like Joe mentioned, you, you kind of have to, if you're just consuming enough fat in your diet, I think you're just going to be fine, you'll be fine. But if you want to try this more train low approach that we kind of I think we're advocates for unknowingly I didn't really know that was a thing. But you know, and we talked a lot more about train low in the last podcast if for some reason you hopped on this podcast and you hear the previous one so you can go talk about it. But just training with fewer carbohydrates, burning those up and letting your body become a little bit more fat adapted. I think I think it's a worthy,

worthy shot like something you should try. And here's another quote from the study. It says if performance is not an issue, becoming fat adapted and exercising at low less than 70% to two max intensities, therefore may improve life policies and promote weight loss in the overweight athlete. However, if the athletes focus is on racing and improving performance times, a high fat, low carbohydrate diet restricts the athletes ability to train and race higher end intensities, and may negatively affect their race outcome. And I concur, like and they link to four studies and everything that I just said. So yeah, if you want to go fast and hard, and we're in zone four, zone five, like it's pretty proven at this point that your body prefers one fuel, and it is sugar. It is it is glycogen. That is what when you get into those intensities, that is all your body wants to burn and you will run out very fast, they actually give the the calorie amounts here you only store about 2500 calories worth of glycogen or carbohydrate before your body runs out. Fat you have 70,000 to 75,000 calories of energy. Even in a lean adult, they say that your body can tap into and use. And so there's a lot of benefit to this train low. And so you can hop on a bike or go for a run and just let your body burn fat at a low intensity for a very long period of time and never feel like you're bonking or running out of energy because to calculate out how long it would take you to burn 70,000 calories is beyond a day. You know it's beyond a day's worth of work there. And so that's that's just something to know I think it's worth a try to train low. But if you are an athlete who's like at this competitive top end, who does do a lot of zone four zone five efforts, it's probably not a good idea for you. But I'd say for 99.8% of our athletes, the train low approach is going to be better especially if you are looking to lose weight. So specifically if you're looking to lose weight that go train mageia lower carbohydrate, try to operate and you know more off of fat and those intensities, and you'll lose more weight and you'll you'll be better off for it. So just something to note I feel like what we've hit on, we've hit on all the macronutrients Now, the next next week we'll get into hydration and supplementation which are also very, very important. But when it comes to carbohydrates, we've given you all the numbers and math for you to calculate what you need for carbohydrates. Take those into account protein, we're giving you the same thing pre during post very important fat is kind of I think those are carbs and protein are more something you can you could implement today. But I want to calculate the single fat is not like I'm going to go Eat some MCT oil coconut oil and then go work out like it doesn't work that way you kind of have to change your lifestyle to this train low approach for fat to really be this huge factor for your performance and so that's that's a much bigger deal so let's I mean that kind of sums it up Did anyone have anything else to say on on protein or fat for the for the day from the study?

Kyle Shrum 40:22
Yeah I would disagree with you on that. And that's especially when we're when we're coaching athletes we talk about that like the the two things the two that we dial in first we dial in protein first and then we talk about carbs. And it's kind of like you know, we'll worry about fat after we get those two down because those two are the most important especially protein because most people are are behind on their protein they're just not eating enough and even even outside of athletic performance we're just talking about just daily living there they're outside of their protein the the amount they need to be eating and so just kind of fat is is a lot it's a lot more to think about and to talk about it's like you said it takes a lifestyle change so

Joe Courtney 41:07
and this was a little bit illuminating talking about it because it's so easy for because we've always been a higher fat proponent and training low and even like fast and all this stuff and like even though we advise all this and like it it's hard it's it's it's is too common for us to overlook the fact that we're just used to it and then people that might like newer athletes of ours might just hear that and be like alright, cool, that's what I need to be doing and then they make the change right away and then there's growing pains and you know there was I think somebody recently in the group that said that they go for their runs and they're getting these headaches and stuff afterwards and first thing I thought it was it has to do with some like one of these energies either either carbs or fat there's an imbalance there and so it's it was it's kind of important to note that you do have to adjust if you are changing your fuel and how you're burning it and all those things so just being aware of that and yeah it's it's it's just having some patience

Jerred Moon 42:06
and a lot of it comes from experience to like I when I started cycling more seriously like a couple years ago isn't that long a couple years ago that's what I just would run into every time because I'm a stronger athlete I that's how I would ride a bike I would ride a bike with power and so it was basically like a power time trial to in what we were finding out was where did you run out of glycogen? And I would find out always like is that the halfway point of the ride to like I'd be half as far as I was gonna go from my house and then I turn around and come home like I've got no energy to get home like I'm gonna try I'm trying my best but I was doing everything wrong you know i was i was operating at too high of an intensity I was burning through all my carbohydrates I wasn't fat adapted to my body didn't know what to do. And so the the answer and what was my first answer was cool more carbohydrates and so I would just drink carbohydrates on the ride and that was fine the ultimate answer that I stumbled on and like more so now is let's rely on some fat let's train a lower intensity and force your body to adapt to that fat so how do we go comfort with the the information for protein fat? For me, once you say

Joe Courtney 43:18
I said Fair enough, but slowly

Ashley Hicks 43:22
Yeah, that's a

Jerred Moon 43:22
very hard one to do very uncomfortable to.

Ashley Hicks 43:25
Yeah, let's definitely for me to kill in comfort would be maybe try some of the protein maybe during pre give it a go, especially since it said nothing. You know, the protein did not hinder any performance. And then I'm going to piggyback off of what Kyle said and yeah, maybe change your idea on fat and that it's not necessarily something that you but as a negative thing that maybe you need a little more fat.

Kyle Shrum 43:54
Yeah, so that that's my whole thing. And the way you kill comfort with this is what's your what's your gut reaction, when you hear you need to eat more protein? Or you got reaction that when you hear you need to have some more fat in your diet, like especially and this comes from from experience with coaching people that and they hear those things, they're like, Alright, I'm out like this. Females Yeah. And that's what I was gonna talk about as well. You know, like with with the ladies, it's like, they hear the need to eat more protein. And this is part of the fitness industry and why we're, we got to take shots at the fitness industry a lot, is the first thing that pops into their head is Oh, man, I'm gonna get bulky. I'm gonna look like a douche. I'm like, do you know how much protein and how much training and how much time it would take for you to start looking even remotely masculine. You know what I mean? Like, it's just, it's not a thing. It's not gonna happen, you know, and so just examine your mindset around. Well, you need to eat more protein in it. eating more protein doesn't instantly make you jet. You know what I mean? Like, like having an extra protein shake a day doesn't instantly make you money. You know what I mean? Or, you know, having a little more fat in your diet doesn't instantly make you a slob. You know what I mean? It's like that. That's not what happens. And so just kind of examine your gut reaction and your mindset when it comes to these things and kind of open your mind to seeing what these things actually do for you when you dial them in properly.

Joe Courtney 45:19
I've been hitting my protein for years, and I'm not jacked. Yeah.

Kyle Shrum 45:24
I wish it was that easy. Yeah. That would be so much better. You know what I mean? But, but yeah, it's

Jerred Moon 45:31
and, and there's a litmus test for all of these things. So like, I would go one step further, because you mentioned eat more protein, eat more fat, even telling an athlete who's more local, low carbohydrate mindset to tell them to eat more carbohydrates, like how does that make you feel? Because there's not there's not a wrong answer. And but there's always like a, there's always something that you can track. Like, for an athlete, if you heard me say, hey, you shouldn't be racing in zone four to five. Especially anything longer, you should be like in zone three, you shouldn't be in zone two, just let's be clear, and they should be zone two during the race zone two is that's training, you should be in zone three touching zone four, and then maybe at the very end, go to zone five. That's the no matter how the distance or whatever it should be zone three most of the time, and then increase it when you when you want to. But if you're like, I can't go fast, and be in zone three, it's like, okay, we have a bear, you're not fit enough for what you want, you need to go get fitter. And it's the same with carbohydrates. If I say hey, go eat more carbohydrates, cuz I think it's gonna increase your performance cuz you're not eating enough. And you're worried about something, let's just track your body weight. You know, if, if I tell you to eat 100 grams more per day of carbohydrate, because you're not accustomed to it, but that might be what you actually need. And you start gaining weight. That was probably wrong, right? Because your body's not utilizing that. But if I tell you to eat 100 or 150 grams more of carbohydrate, and you're just feel better you're having this like rock solid performance and your weight is untouched, from Salt. Like that's it and, and this is something I want to hit on because when we get into the carbohydrates, we talk about this. I've talked about it with Rob Wolf, I talked about it with who's the professor we've had on multiple times we've reviewed his book to why we get sick forgot his name, Beckman. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Dr. Ben Beckman is how many carbohydrates? Can someone have who's relatively low body fat, more fat adapted and still like be okay? Because this whole keto bs at 20 grams of carbohydrates a day, and I have nothing wrong with keto, but like that magical number is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Like, everything else in nutrition is based off of grams per kilogram, how big are you? What how much lean tissue do you have? But for some reason, keto is just like 20. Let's call it 20. Everybody, am I 20 doesn't matter 20 that's the safe number. And I found out I can be in Quito, with over 100 grams of carbohydrates a day when I was doing really low carb I'd like I could still piss keto on a strip with like, 120 grams ingested of carbohydrate. And so that's why I think even athletes who want to be low carb, need to be looking at these things. Like you might still need more carbohydrates. Yeah, we're not on board with five or 600 carbohydrates in a day, but I'm more on board with then than less, especially if you're doing any sort of serious training. So I take very same approach in my killing comfort is like, just challenge yourself in all these different areas. And, you know, experiment with this train low. That's kind of what Joe said for his, but like, just just challenge how you feel about each macronutrient. And if you have a feeling about a macronutrient, ask yourself why that's a weird thing. In general, I have a feeling about a macro. That's weird spelling someone put that in your head, like they're, they they are just like, it's just a measurement of energy, right? Like, why do you have a weird feeling about a measurement of energy? You know, so that's, that's my comfort. They're both going to the topic Joe, what are we? What are we talking about?

Joe Courtney 48:54
So we are looking at looking forward into our end to your goals. And what we are looking forward to in our training coming up, like what in it's kind of a progress check, not really necessarily an update, it's like, Hey, what are we What are us personally looking forward to on our training? What are we what is their mindset shift toward? What are we you know, just overall thoughts on training now and looking forward for the next couple of months. Not necessarily specific goals, but just in general, where our heads at toward training? Kyle?

Kyle Shrum 49:29
Okay. So first off, I'll just say, coming off of BCT we've been off ebct for a few weeks now. I'll just say a lifetime prs on my back squat, and all my mile time, which is great. That was the goal with BCT. And so that was that was really cool. But that was kind of a was definitely a huge test for me, not just of seeing, you know, not just opinion Lifetime prs, but of cannot commit to one thing for an entire year. And I think that was the toughest part of BCT. It wasn't just hitting a lifetime PR on back squat, I think everybody can do that, you know, and I think people do it all the time. You know, I think pretty much every fit, we you know, we have some people who are hitting lifetime prs on the things that we test, or, you know, hitting a lifetime, PR on a mile time and all that kind of stuff. But that's great. But to me, the biggest thing that I took away from BCT, was being able to commit to something, to commit to one goal for an entire year, and stick with it, and stay with that training. And so I'm gonna throw in and kill uncomfort, part two here, of before I get into my, my future goals moving forward, commit to one thing for a year, like, kill some comfort and commit to one thing for a year and see if you can actually stick with it, right? Because that was kind of the thing to have, like, we start with BCT. And it's like, Alright, let's just, let's see, let's see how, how big we can get our back squat. Let's see how fast we can run a mile. It's like, yeah, that's awesome. You get through that first 12 weeks. And it's like, this was an enormous mistake. It's, it was rough, you know, it was it was, especially that first 12 weeks that was I mean, we really, we really hit it hard. And that was there was a lot of training. And it was, it was hard training to do. And so you get into that. And especially thinking about being a garage mathlete, having life, having kids having holidays, having trips, having all this kinds of stuff that comes up within the course of a year. And it's like you can hit really big gains in the first 12 weeks, can you keep it moving for, you know, the next three cycles. So that was my biggest thing and that and so I just want to throw that out there kill comfort part two, by committing to one thing for a year, I know, we had a lot of people who do the merge challenge doing that every week for a year, those types of things, but but find one thing in your training that you want to improve and commit to improving that one thing for an entire year and see if you can do it, see if you can stick with it. And so that's the biggest thing that I pulled out of that. But for me moving forward, I'm focused on I'm going to try to focus on body composition, trying to lose some of this, this body fat that we've been talking about, you know, and eating, you know, eating and fueling properly, and all that kind of stuff. Still got some excess body fat, that even with losing as much weight and maintaining and stuff as I have. So got some excess body fat, I'm looking to lose. And so my future goals are, are oriented towards body composition. I've found over the last few weeks, seem to be a little more tolerant of carbs than I used to be, which is good. And I mean, I'm not just overindulging or anything but I'm not having as many headaches or migraines or anything like that as I used to. And so I'm starting to introduce those a little bit more. And the carb goal has gone up a little bit from what it used to be as well, even when trying to not awesome body fat, but I'm only in duratrac mainly because I've never done the indoor track before. So I wanted to see what it was all about and see how Marco does things. But also it's a good high calorie track with plenty of zone to work thrown into it as well actually, today's workout is a 15 minute run in zone two. So London that used to that from BCT kind of changed my thoughts about running and stuff as well. And so looking forward to that, but anyway, those are those are my goals. I'm gonna try to do somebody comes in I think I pick I keep talking to the concurrent training elite group about this. I think I picked a bad cycle to focus on body composition though, because we've got big holidays coming up. Thanksgiving and Christmas coming up this cycle and I'm focused on body composition. I don't know how that's gonna work out but we'll see. Anyway,

Ashley Hicks 53:53
you're gonna have to watch what you can take

Joe Courtney 53:56
credit for the year. What happened?

Jerred Moon 53:58
What happens around Christmas and think what are we talking about? Ah ha ha ha yeah. Yeah,

Joe Courtney 54:11
official holiday

Kyle Shrum 54:12
that week is that week is my life anyway, actually.

Ashley Hicks 54:19
Um, so I mean, everybody knows my training goals are just so different from what they used to be and that's okay. I'm just currently training to help promote healing in my body along with you know, what my physicians are trying to help me with. So it's kind of hard because I think I would be I obviously have some stuff that I want to get rid of just like you pile but you know, I have to make sure that hormones and stuffer are doing what they need to do my thyroid is producing a hormone so then that way I can then focus on those goals. So right now I have to take a step back and say before I even focus on body comp Because I can't really do anything unless my body's doing what it needs to do, I need to focus on the healing part. And obviously, this is taking a lot longer than you know what I thought it would. And I think that that is a huge takeaway too is like, if you're working through some stuff, it might take a little longer than what you think and just keep at it and keep going. That's, you know, that's a huge killing convert thing, I'm still working on the mindset of this, like I mentioned last podcast. But I know in the long run, it's just going to help me, again, continue to heal and promote health, and hopefully I can continue to train for a very long time, hopefully, you know, I want to be that 67 year old woman still, still getting after it. But um, but I also think, too, for my goals, or where I'm going with this is just listen to what my body is saying, Joe kind of brought up, you know, one of our athletes brought up headaches and whatnot. And I mean, this athlete was a female. And for me, I was having the same issue. I was running, I was having headaches, I also got very lethargic, not right after the training happened, but like, a couple hours after, like, I would have this high after the training, right, I would feel great. And then I'd come down, like crash terribly. And if my body ever does that, I know that Oh, you tapped into heart today. Not to mention, I don't ever let myself do that, because I'm monitoring my heart rate now. So yeah, my goals are very different. But like I said, That's okay. I'm gonna pick on Jared, cuz, Joe, Jared always goes last. So you can go next. And we'll have Joe round us out of the envelope.

Joe Courtney 56:44
Great.

Jerred Moon 56:46
unexpected. All right, yeah, my goals are quite simple. I even added some alliteration, bike and balance, those are the goals you like alliteration. So it's a bike unbalance I'm getting back on the bike. road bike, I really enjoy it. We kind of have opposite seasons in Texas maybe then the rest of the world it actually gets very challenging to bike during the summer and it's very, very hot. While it still can be done, and not as much so now really, it To be honest, we have a mild winter, there's no reason to ever stop cycling outside and let's say it gets really cold. I did find out that like 40 degrees biking 20 miles per hour, that is not can be that can be painful, but um, there's like a, there's like a fine line there. But I'm going to be biking a lot more in the balanced part is just falling hard to kill somebody on the hard to kill track. And I like how much it balances out all the different areas of fitness. That's why I'm so bored and too hard to kill and like always doing it. Even though I'm the one who programs it I feel like you have to have this big reason in any training program that's kind of got you bought in. And I'm so convinced of our programming methodology. I'm just bought into it. And and that why because most coaches cannot follow a program they wrote for themselves, like they want someone else to do it or whatever. And the reason is, cuz they're not as bought into it. But I'm so bought in not to like me just the system, the method, the what we do on the hard to kill track, even if I wasn't on programming. And if one of you were programming I still bought in because we're following all the same rules that it's going to really balance me out. So that that gives me going on hard to kill track. And why I didn't like being on VCT as much because it was a little bit slanted. And I could have changed that but I just didn't want to. And then yeah, I really enjoyed biking, the only thing that's going to be different. Really all the conditioning I do on hard to kill I'm just doing on the erg for the most part, bike erg. So that's how that looks, I might add two biking sessions per week, outside of the training may be on rest day. And I'm also adding a long day, which I've almost never done before. So we're talking about anywhere from two to three hour training session. in a single day. I always stick to an hour, but I'm gonna have one day per week where I go super long on the bike, because I am going to ride in the hotter and hell next year 100 100 mile bike race and I would like to do well. I'm not trying to podium or win or anything, but long races suck when you're not training for them. So I'm kind of starting to train for that now. And I've never, never allowed the trains really go past an hour. It's always been like, I'm gonna ride the 100 mile bike race and they'll stop at an hour like don't train more than that. But I'm going to be at least one one day per week. Very long session. So are you

Ashley Hicks 59:36
gonna do that on Saturdays?

Jerred Moon 59:38
I haven't decided the day yet. It's either gonna be Saturday or Sunday or Friday. Yeah, one of those I know, Monday through Thursday, super focused work. And then Friday, if it's basically like if I can make sure everything that's done that needs to be done and I can stop at like two Then I could go on a two hour bike ride and then just finish my workday around the same time so like, but if that's not going to work out, and I'm having to move that train day too many times and yeah, it'll just go to like permanently you know, Saturday afternoon or Saturday morning or something like that.

Ashley Hicks 1:00:13
Yeah. Joe before you go I wanted to hit on something to dry and you talked about harder to kill all of our training, I would say I'm on harder to kill as well. And I just wanted to just advocate for our training saying that like I can take any training session I can probably take Marcos I can take VDS and I can turn it into something that something that I can do and do zone two and zone three so I'm using harder to kill to happen and I love the strength days it's so great and then I hit the endurance days I'm like well not gonna do this it's gonna it's gonna be zone two zone three day but I can still make it work and so anyone like even if you're not dealing with anything else but you're just dealing with injury or whatnot you can take anybody's training out of the seven tracks and you can make it work for yourself so sorry, I just wanted to hit on that Joe

Joe Courtney 1:01:04
alright so i guess kind of similar to Kyle but a month or two behind on that is I committed to wanting to go in for a big back squat PR and I am approaching that about about I don't know it's almost been a year since I joined strength last year and my my back squat have gone up a good bit and it's approaching the time where I'm going to go for the number that I set out for so that hopefully will come in November about a month or six weeks out that I'm going to try Are you at now I mean back in it was like back in the spring I got 385 and my goal is technically my goals 400 but since I don't use

Jerred Moon 1:01:45
I don't know anyone who's ever squatted 400 pounds

Joe Courtney 1:01:47
it doesn't it's four or five so that was a foreigner plus pound squat and I mean that was five five or so months ago and I just been hitting with strength the entire time so it's awesome feeling great and hopefully I can hit that next month now since the weather is getting better here it's making me want to run more so that's a hard debate going back and forth of you know I still need to hit this squat but I'm also I got some ideas for you. Yeah,

Kyle Shrum 1:02:14
we have an entire track

Joe Courtney 1:02:20
I debated on going back last year to be like did tg your PR squeeze and my final like six weeks but we'll see. But mostly I'm doing zone twos nowadays and so like four or five miles isn't too but yesterday I did some other intervals because I wanted to hit some higher intensities. But yeah, so I'm still wanting to run more because the weather's getting better and I just like running more but it's still you know in the 90s here so that's like a sub goal because I still want to increase my my run times but the back squat is number one and then filling in gaps from there whenever I have extra time at the gym. I'm working in more upper body stuff because I feel like especially my pull ups have suffered some and I know that they got so much better when I was doing Murph practice so I need to make sure I'm still hitting that up and unbalancing with the upper body especially because you know what the back squat I need to be able to keep my keep the weight up anyway my chest up so but that's like the the third third string of goals but either way number one is the back squat that I'm so close to and then film inspection running and then whenever I hit that we'll see that'll be a different update.

Ashley Hicks 1:03:32
I think it's probably because you played soccer and lacrosse because Jared and Kyle played football right

Kyle Shrum 1:03:39
I did play football

Jerred Moon 1:03:40
Yes Yeah, I did I was attracted to oh okay that's why i mean i played football but like I was okay football I was better at track

Ashley Hicks 1:03:51
fight like running I don't know I just have this like theory that it just depends on like, what sport you play.

Joe Courtney 1:03:56
Oh yeah, soccer and lacrosse. I definitely ran a lot and my pitch this position in lacrosse was probably some of the most running but it was very interval high intensity sprint sprint, on the field and off the field because I was in the position that sub on and off constantly. Which is why I hit zone five when I play lacrosse and not a drink.

Jerred Moon 1:04:15
Oh yeah, let me be clear. I was not a cross country athlete. I 400 was the furthest I ever ran and I hate that was like why so long as we did one I was in 102 100 and then occasionally 400 for like the relay Yeah, let's let's get in the workout and then get out of here. Dia de los Muertos. Who's got it?

Joe Courtney 1:04:41
I mean, it's pretty simple. I've got it out. Yeah. Once you got I feel like I'm missing something but everyone's dying to hear it. Wow, that's by 10 meters. So like the Oh my goodness. I just,

Jerred Moon 1:04:54
yeah, good. Yeah.

Joe Courtney 1:04:58
No, 10 meters. So the bit Kinda like the beat test. And so the death by 10 meters you will have your 10 meters out and then every minute right every minute on the beep or I write on the minute you will do a 10 meter shuttle and then you will add one more one rep each time so death by a kind of like you would do anyone and you count up until you fail for within that minute. Rest five minutes, then death by push up. Same thing. minute one, one, push up minute, two, two push ups all the way up until you can't complete the reps within that minute. Simple.

Jerred Moon 1:05:33
Yeah, so this the story behind this one? No, which is just sort of mind blowing. Okay. We, when we create meet yourself, Saturday workouts, we've talked about this on podcast, there's me, it makes it pretty bad. I make us like, whoo, I don't know. Joe brings us down. He's like, let's come up. Like here. Marco makes it worse. And so this is kind of the dance. This is the only one I wrote and had been a meet yourself Saturday workout for a while. And then Joe came to me and he's like, Hey, man, I don't think this one should be a meet yourself Saturday workout anymore. He's like, it's not hard. It's not hard enough. Like, let's just put this one in the archive. And I was like, What are you talking about? So I do think that this one, to Joe's point can be if you would like it to be very easy, or it can be a puke worthy workout. On the running alone the strength, you're just going to kind of like, it's better to do this with people. That's all I'm gonna say. Like, if you can get someone around your fitness level and compete is going to be great. But either way, try hard on this one. So that's just the story behind it. It it can you can make it super easy, or you can make it as hard as you possibly want.

Kyle Shrum 1:06:56
My only tip is, I don't know, listen to some mariachi music while you do it. Oh,

Ashley Hicks 1:07:01
no. sovereignty,

Kyle Shrum 1:07:07
I would definitely echo what Jared says, you look at this, and you're like, Okay, no big deal. But if you're doing the sprints as France, you know, they turn into, you know, turn into shuttles pretty quickly, you know, you're going back and forth. But if you're doing them as Sprint's done yeah, it's gonna suck, it's gonna hurt. If you're just kind of whatever, you know, then you can, I'll give

Jerred Moon 1:07:31
you a goal on getting past 20 on both, it should be the goal. Yeah. And getting past minute 20 on both ends, it should be a lot.

Kyle Shrum 1:07:39
And that's the thing like you add that up of how many reps that's going to be, you know, remain over time. You know, you look at how much work you do even you go to 20, that's 20 minutes, you did a 20 minute workout. But look how much work you did within that 20 minutes. And it's that's why it's a meet yourself Saturday, or you can do it for seven minutes, and you don't do a whole lot, then. Did you did you meet yourself? Maybe some people do make themselves at seven minutes, but depends on where they're at. It just depends. But everybody's made themselves at 20 minutes, I would say.

Ashley Hicks 1:08:12
So for sure. I won't beat a dead horse. I agree with both Jared and Kyle. I'll just say that. And then the jokes,

Jerred Moon 1:08:18
the dead jokes.

Ashley Hicks 1:08:23
But I just didn't say on your pushups. You're dead when your form goes like, Don't keep pushing. If you are like, you're warming yourself up and you're just warm put Yeah, no, no, you died at minute seven, if that's what it takes for your form to break down. So make sure you're doing that appropriately or scaling appropriately. If that means you got to do knee push ups, do any push ups or some sort of like incline push up of some sort and do that. Alright, Joe, what you get.

Joe Courtney 1:08:54
So I'll say on the pushup start to start your minutes in the opposition not down because you're basically doing a hand release, push up, if you're starting down, like if you start readjusting the ground, then do your push up and then you're resting on your chest versus

Jerred Moon 1:09:07
facing your push first push up should just be lowering because that would be incorrect.

Joe Courtney 1:09:11
No, you know, you push out about

Kyle Shrum 1:09:14
your startup and then you do a full one instead of running around and pushing

Joe Courtney 1:09:19
the rest on your knees to your chest basically. And if you for some reason can't do can't do the shuttle like for the back and forth, you have to do it in your garage and you can't do it. Then I would just replace it with calories on whatever action you have, especially if it's an aerodyne

Ashley Hicks 1:09:33
or you can do with Barbies That would suck

Jerred Moon 1:09:36
I think it'd be shuttle I think shudder makes a way worse. Yeah. I mean go to a trip, but I mean Joe's right. If you're if you're limited. It's hard like if I were to do this one, I would go to the track where there's a turf field. I would not just yeah when do in my garage when doing my grass. I would do it on my driveway like I would prefer to be on an actual field with like 10 meter marks and test out your turns. Yeah.

Ashley Hicks 1:10:02
An alternate which way you turn, don't just turn right or left each time. Yeah, I would, I would

Jerred Moon 1:10:08
just I don't do that. You're right. Like, if you I don't do that, like I turn on the same leg every time because I've just, I'll be faster when I do it that way. But it's not good for you like, it's like you shouldn't do that

Joe Courtney 1:10:19
this guy didn't run separators enough.

Ashley Hicks 1:10:22
Like, oh, Lord.

Jerred Moon 1:10:25
I know, I know going in, I'm like, this is a bad decision. But I'm just going for the score one time and I'm not going to have to run anymore. So I know, it's like, I know I shouldn't do it. But I'm not trying to so my worries. I'm just trying to get as many as I can. And I used to do death by pushup I think I've told the story. But I used to do it a lot in the military, with, with the whole like crew that that that worked, we work together. And I would kind of this is what happened. People would always on Friday, airman would start cleaning up. And so I'm the officer in charge, they start cleaning up. And what they're doing is they come by your door, they're like sweeping, like looking at you. And I'm just like, no, I came this thing like, when can we leave It's Friday Are you gonna let us go home early. That's kind of like what they're saying like, but what I noticed was the chores, just started like everyone had something they had to do like aren't like every single airman me included, we had something we had to do to clean up the shop before we would leave on Friday. And if we were if we were done, everyone was done the chance of them going home early, we're like way higher. But what happened when I kind of instituted that policy was like the charges started earlier and earlier. Like if someone's like sweeping in front of my door, like 130. And I'm like, Look, man, we're talking like 30 minutes, maybe an hour going home early, not like four hours before we're supposed to leave. And so then I just made it a thing. And I was like, under two considerations. Like if you can get all the chores done, like as fast as you as you want. And then you can also beat me and death by pushups, we can go home three hours early. And so that was like the standing challenge. So people would just they would be done with chores at two o'clock, they would let me know we'd all take off our blouses. We'd meet in like the main auditorium area in a big Alright, let's go. And it would always come down to like me and these two other guys. They were just like biess at pushups. And I think I got beat one time. He's a former Marine came when Air Force. His name was last name was Bracken. And we would it would be like down to the every single time it wasn't like I was just like crushing people. And it was like, like, I was in pain like I don't know, I was like, I know if he goes one more I'm out like I just can't i can't do any more pushups. But I just had just a slight edge on him but he beat me one time and like they got to go home like two and a half hours earlier or something like that. So this one with people equally yoked is a lot of fun and can push you really hard. So back to my main point there. But uh that's it, we can we can end on a story from the good old days. And get out of here if you are googly. Yeah, if you are one of our athletes, thank you so much for being part of the community supporting what we do here. And again, give us some feedback on this we have Part Three coming next week I would like to do more series I'm actually really enjoying them It gives us an opportunity to do much deeper dive specifically on these reviews than we are normally able to do we're normally trying to cover like the 30,000 foot view in like 15 to 20 minutes so I really like him. So give us more feedback if you can. Anyone who's not part of our training, you can fix that problem at garage gym athlete.com sign up for a 14 day free trial and experience everything that we are doing, and we'd really appreciate it. But that's it for your weekly reminder you don't feel comfort, comfort will kill you

Transcribed by https://otter.ai