Hot Baths May Be The New Hotness Over Cold Plunge

Podcast Transcript

Jerred:

Jerred: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Garage Gym Athlete Podcast. Jared Moon here with Joe Courtney, how you doing, Joe?

Joe: Right. Great man. Talk about you

Jerred: It's good. It's good to have you back, man. I like, uh, doing a solo. It's a little difficult sometimes, but I like that we, uh, we get back together, give people some updates about what's going on in the world.

Joe: yeah, and we're resurrecting something else or.

Jerred: Yeah, so today we're, we're going over a study. I know some athletes have been missing this. Um, I've been hitting on the science a little bit more in some of my solo podcasts. Uh, but today, uh, Joe and I will get into updates, training, all that stuff. But we're gonna do that at the end of the podcast. Uh, today specifically, we're gonna be going over a study that was done at the end of 2024, December, 2024.

And the title of the study is Hot but not Cold Water Immersion mitigates the decline in rate of force development following exercise induced muscle damage. And so what does all that mean? What are we actually covering well over the [00:01:00] last couple of podcasts I've been talking about? Cold plunging, cold water immersion, uh, and sauna use.

And now we're getting into hot water immersion, which is different than like a sauna. This is actually just getting in a hot bath and staying submerged for a certain amount of time. I've seen a lot of, um, evidence starting to peak up, like up here and there on this. Um, for the last one to two years I've been even been hearing about some people utilizing it and how effective it can be, um, if you really let your core body temperature get up there.

So we're gonna be talking about this today and this study specifically. Was, uh, comparing, you know, basically cold plunging with, uh, let's just call it hot plunging a hot bath if you will, but not so much a plunge. It's, you gotta be in there for a while and how it equates to recovery. So I have a lot of big picture takeaways, um, from all of this.

Not as much like is hot, better than cold. I mean, we can get into that, [00:02:00] but ultimately I will break down the study real quick and then I'll get your thoughts. Joe, so how, what they had is they had 30 physically active males, um, who did a, uh, exercise induced muscle damage. Protocol training. So they did iso, isokinetic knee extensions, which is like where you can, uh, the speed of the movement doesn't change.

It doesn't matter how hard you go, like the speed doesn't change. It's just more torque, more pressure on the, on the system anyway. It can induce a lot of exercise damage. So they did that with all these different people and then they would have them do these different, uh. Protocols for cold water immersion, hot water immersion, or a control, which was just a warm bath.

And so essentially they would do, um, lemme pull up the times for cold water immersion subjects. Sat up to their necks in 11 degrees Celsius water for 11 minutes, which is 51.8 degrees. Okay, so that's, that's one thing [00:03:00] that we gotta talk about right off the bat is like, is that cold enough? A lot of people will cold plunge, uh, cold plunge for a lot longer than, um, 11 minutes if it's gonna be at 50 degrees and a lot shorter if it's gonna be at like 35, 40 degrees.

Um, so I'm not in love with their cold water immersion. Protocol Now, their hot water immersion protocol was very specific if you're looking to do this. Uh, when we talk about some of the benefits, it says the subject sat in hot water up to their waist with their arms out of the water. The water temperature was 41 degrees Celsius, which is like 105 degrees Fahrenheit, and they would sit there until their body temperature reached.

Around a hundred to 102 degrees of Fahrenheit. Okay, that's 38.5 to 39 degrees Celsius. And they would sit there until that point, and then after they got to that point, they would sit there for 25 more minutes. I. So, and they could drink water during and to stay hydrated and everything else. But I, I dove into like the full text of this.

I'm [00:04:00] like, well how long is that? Because it's kind of arbitrary. It's like, wait until your body temperature reaches this and then stay in 25 minutes longer. And it looked like it, it equated anywhere to 41 to 47 minutes per athlete, if you will. So that's a long time in a hot bath. That's a long, long time to have to sit in there up.

Luckily they weren't up to their necks 'cause that would be probably quite painful. But anyway, overall. The, uh, the findings suggests that the hot water immersion was better, albeit slightly, but it was better when it's talking about having to put out more force, more rate of force development, peak torque, all of these things, the recovery modality that is hot water immersion was better.

And so that's kind of cats outta the bag right away. Already some interesting research. But Joe, as you looked at this study, uh, what did you find interesting?

Joe: I really liked the, they, so with the, um, active males, how they specified that they had to do six hours of training per week, which was, which surprisingly I haven't seen any of that. Usually they just [00:05:00] arbitrarily say, you know, active to moderately active fit males for the last three to six

Jerred: Whichever college kids we could find.

Joe: yeah,

Jerred: I, I was, I was thinking about that this week. It's like we sometimes, like this study is great, but sometimes it's like people are like, oh, this, I found this study and I'm like. That study's based off of like a couple of college kids who wanted 50 bucks for the day and like don't really care about the outcome of what they're studying.

Uh, but anyway, continue.

Joe: So that was cool. 'cause six hours of training a week, you know, essentially that six training sessions. So that's pretty, that's pretty fit in in my book. I like that they measured, uh, the torque and velocity. So I think they, they were going for, I guess, consistency and speed with the reps and, you know, doing a seven by 10 of anything is pretty fatiguing. So I, I thought the design, um, in general was, was really good. I did like that. The idea to go into the study about, like, know hot bath first cold, because not everybody's gonna be able to do a cold plunge, you know, especially in the summer or whatever. How [00:06:00] cold can your bath get if you don't have something cooling the water or dumping, um,

Jerred: Right.

Joe: of ice?

Like, nobody's gonna have access to ice, but everybody can access, you know, hot water in a bath. Just put it in there. So I, that's what also I really like. I really liked the studies that have easy practical application for people. Not ones that say, Hey, you need to get. A hold of this awesome device that's gonna cost you some money.

So like barrier to entry, I guess that, that would be, that would be it. Um, but the, at the end, it's sort of like the, the secret sauce to the, hot was kind of what we've been preaching for how many years now, and it's just has comes

Jerred: That's gonna be one of my main takeaways. Yeah.

Joe: Like that, that, that was basically, and that was sort of like my, before I even read it, I was thinking, is this just another, another way to get blood flow? And uh, yep.

Jerred: Yeah. And that's something we've been talking about for years. And, and to hit on your other point, like, um, just in case anybody's kind of new to recovery research or whatever, [00:07:00] the. We've looked at this in, in many other studies and, and even the why behind it, it, when you are trying to predict or, uh, assess an athlete's recovery, like speed and rate of force development seems to be always like one of the top markers.

If you're wondering, it's like, why didn't they just look at their inflammation markers in their, their their blood or something like that? It. That it always comes out to being like, Hey, they do like these jump tests. They do all these like rate of forest development tests. Those always seem to be at the top of the, the food chain when it comes to assessing someone's recovery.

Inability to basically perform. 'cause that's what recovery is, the ability to perform again in the next session or whatever. Um, so just to hit on your point, 'cause you, you liked that, but I wanna make sure other, uh, people understood that. But yeah man, that was one of my biggest takeaways. Was blood flow.

It was like, oh, okay. Like, and, and that used to be the claim of why, um, cold plunging was. [00:08:00] Effective, it was supposed to constrict all of the blood flow, right? And so, and, and this is the, the theory behind it. What, what's supposed to happen with cut cold, uh, cold plunging or cold exposure is what happens is your body sends all the blood from extremities to your organs to your core.

And then once you. Get outta the cold, it all, it throws the blood back out. So it's like forcing this massive amount of blood volume to move in and then back out. And that's why like, at least that was how it was explained to me why it was supposed to be so effective. But then there are all these other things that cold water does, which is like blunt inflammation, possibly hypertrophy, signaling signals, uh signals and all these kind of things.

Um, where some of the negative stuff comes in, which I talked about in a recent podcast. Um. So blood flow is, is king. I think that's, that's the main thing that you, you, you have to know if you're looking to do any kind of recovery modality.

Joe: Yeah, and I, I, I actually did like [00:09:00] the, the, you know, going into further explanation as to why the hot bath did that is, is because of vasodilation, opening blood

Jerred: Mm-hmm.

Joe: just like movement for, for that. So that was, um. Kind of nice just to get in a little, in a little, um, deeper, deeper, uh, look into it. But that was the main thing. I mean, and I, I was actually curious and I was gonna ask you about it. So like, could you just sub a hot bath with sauna if you're

Jerred: Yeah. See, that's what I think that you could, and, and that's what I'm, I'm curious, so this is newer research, uh, and this always happens, right? Like, um, I. Things kind of start slow. People are gonna push back against it. In a couple of years, you'll, you'll be seeing all the influencers getting in hot baths with little rubber duckies swimming around 'em, right?

Like it, it'll just be the, the next thing and they'll, then you'll see all the Instagram content of like, cold plunging is dead. Here's why. Like, all that's coming. You see a study like this, it's coming. It's just like, [00:10:00] this is the, this was done in December, 2024. The rest of mainstream will keep up. It'll probably take 'em about two years to catch up to it.

Just mark my words. Now, maybe we can. Play this clip in like two or three years and you'll see, but that's, that's what's gonna happen. So is raising your core body temperature in Asana just as effective and I think so because it, it's interesting to me, interesting to me what they were measuring and the fact that they were trying to get someone's core body temperature up and then maintain it for 25 minutes after they got it up.

Like I find that very interesting because to me that means. Modality is not important. So to me it's like if you could do this in a sauna, a hot tub, hot bath outside, you know, just like when it's 108 degrees and feels like 1 27 in the middle of summer here in Texas, I guarantee my core temperature's getting up.

You know, much hotter. Especially like if I'm, if I'm outside for a couple of hours or whatever. [00:11:00] So yeah, I do think that there's just a lot of like. Benefits there, but we'll see more research come out about that because there's one unpublished study that like also is, is pointing towards the fact that repeated heat exposure can also blunt hypertrophy.

I'm not saying that that's like, that's what cold plunging does. That's why some people are like, they don't want to do it. Now. There's like, one unpublished study is not official. Don't take these words as like something that's that's happening or this is true that they're saying that that can happen with repeated.

Um, heat exposure, hot water immersion, but I don't know if that's gonna come to fruition and or mean anything. So I do feel like blood blood flow is king. So I'll kind of go over like my four main points from this study. Um, and so the first one is, is very possible that hot may be better than cold when it comes to recovery.

It. It has the edge from like a mechanism standpoint, but it doesn't have the [00:12:00] research yet. But it's very possible that heat is going to outpace cold for recovery if you need to recover, especially in the performance modality, right? Like if you need to put out more, uh, peak force or whatever. Um, and we're talking about actual recovery benefits there.

Now, my second takeaway, exactly what you said, blood flow is king and it always will be. We've been talking about this for years. It just seems like it doesn't matter if you're injured, doesn't matter if you wanna recover it. It really doesn't matter what it is. Nutrient delivery to a site on your body is provided via blood, like so.

Every re recovery modality does this in some capacity. So hot water immersion, vasodilation, more blood flow. More blood in and out of a certain area. Cold exposure. I already kind of explained the mechanism of how that can. Um, theoretically increase blood flow, [00:13:00] post cold exposure to an area. Then we talk about compression modalities.

They're essentially, um, doing the same thing, um, getting blood in and out of an area or like the, uh, the e-stim devices, right? They're just pumping a site over and over again to get blood flow in and out of an area, helps speed up recovery. That's pretty proven. But what's funny about all of this is like.

Those three things that I mentioned. If we cold plunge, let's just say you bought a hot tub as opposed to using your, your bath or you bought some sort of compression, like where it's like squeezing contraction or eem, that's thousands and thousands of dollars of recovery. But when we're, when we're just looking at vasodilation, we're just trying to get blood in and out of an area.

Nothing ever really beats active recovery. Which is hilarious. It's like nothing like the research is, is very clear over and over again. The best form of recovery, hands down, over your cold plunge, over your hot water immersion, over your e-stim. The best form of recovery is just [00:14:00] active recovery. Going on a walk, spinning on a bike, doing these things that it, it cannot be beat and I don't know if it ever will be beaten and it's because of the blood flow modality and you don't need anything to do it.

You can just go for a walk. You can just get on an airdyne. You know, and, and go light for, for an hour, 30 minutes if you're really struggling with recovery. And so blood flow is king, and I honestly, it always will be. So if you're really looking for all these o other recovery modalities, you can stop.

Nothing's gonna be active recovery. So that's like my biggest takeaway.

Joe: Yeah.

Jerred: then, yeah,

Joe: you go

Jerred: go ahead.

Joe: Yeah.

Jerred: got, I, I got two more, but you go ahead.

Joe: Yeah, I, it, it, it makes it really easy for, for, for the hot, um, hot plunge, for you to just use it in a, as you need. And at least like with the cold plunge you have the, the mental, the mental side of it. But it's, I, I'm not gonna sit in a hot bath 30, 40 minutes after, you know, most training sessions.

It's probably gonna be done after like, something really hard.

Jerred: And that's what that was. My biggest thing is like [00:15:00] my, my problem with the study was I thought, I think the cold plunge was not cold enough and the duration was too short. Um, because a lot of the research I had read, um, when we've re reviewed this previously is like if you're in around the 50 to 55 degree mark, athletes were staying in for very long period of time.

Like even professional athletes, uh, who get in at like 50 to 55 degrees, they're staying in for like a half hour or something like that. And, and. We may have to like, I may have to look and see what the exact, I could be wrong on that, but 50 to 55, you're typically staying in for a lot longer than 11 minutes.

I thought I could be wrong on that. I have to like go back and check the literature and then. The shorter duration means the increase in cold. Now, I, you're not staying 40 degrees for 11 minutes or 35 degrees for 11 minutes. Those are typically three to four, three to five minutes, something like that. Uh, but typically, like, that's what I saw in the research was there's a direct correlation with how cold it was and the duration.

So I, I didn't, I didn't seem like 50 in 11 minutes was good. And then that's my biggest problem with the hot water [00:16:00] water immersion is like, yeah, I, I don't have 40 to. 60 minutes to sit in a hot bath and recover. Like if I, I would rather just go on an additional walk, get some additional steps in. I would rather do a, uh, you know, like a mobility session.

Anything else aside from sit in a bath and do nothing for an hour, that's, that's very, very tough for me. Um, but my third takeaway, and this is just more, uh, like me zooming out, looking at this stuff over and over again, is, this is my third takeaway. Just maybe do nothing. After you work out, just try that out.

Like don't do anything. And, and I mean, don't do any massive recovery modality thing for after your training. Get some solid nutrition. Get some protein, get some carbohydrates from a clean source in there. Get some micronutrients. Get, get hydrated. Rehydrate, all those things, but then just let your body do what it wants.

Because [00:17:00] if, what if the unpublished study I'm talking about where people are hopping in a hot bath after the fact repeatedly, if it actually ends up proving to be true, that it affects hypertrophy and we already know, cold does after you, if you jump in right after a cold train, after a training session, cold will blunt hypertrophy, uh, signaling.

Let's, let's just let, let the body do what it wants for at least like 12, 24 hours. And, and that means all reco, recco, recovery modalities. Just throw 'em out the window. Don't worry about 'em until you're about 24 hours out, and if you feel like you need it, and so like, maybe let's just stay away from recovery modalities unless they're absolutely necessary, your body knows what it's doing.

Right. Our bodies know what they're doing when, when they get inflammation, when all these things happen, just let your body do what it wants for 24 hours before you kick in and you're trying to stop doing what the body's naturally been designed to do. You know, just get outta the way for 24 hours. Let the body do what it wants, hydrate, get some nutrition and, and that's about it.

But the fourth thing, this is the only place where I feel like cold water immersion wins. [00:18:00] If you need a quick turnaround for performance, cold will win out. And so if you had like some sort of competition, um, where like, let's say it's a full day and you have like a break in between the competition or it's a two day competition or something like that where there's competition, one day competition next day, this is where you would probably wanna put in cold, cold water immersion because it does.

Blunt, a ton of inflammation, numbs the area, reduces a lot of the pain, swelling, whatever, which I was just saying like, Hey, let's get outta the way. Let those things happen. That's for optimizing recovery and adaptation to exercise and training. After it happens, if you need to not recover, you don't want the inflammation to be there because you need to perform again quickly.

It it basically by numbing and reducing inflammation. It's like the same of like taking ibuprofen, right? It's like. Well, should I be doing that? It's like, well, you could, if you wanna blunt everything your body's trying to do because you [00:19:00] have to perform again, and this is very like uncommon practice, then yeah, go for it.

Go for it. But that's the only place I see cold water immersion, like win winning out. And to be honest, like even when you and I are doing like events, whatever, if we're doing High Rocks or Spartan, like those still aren't like two day things, right? So it's like the chances of you having a two day competition or like a six hour break between something like.

I can't, I can't see that being useful for most athletes out there, to be honest.

Joe: Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, not much else to add there.

Jerred: Yeah. So I think, I think that basically covers everything on this one. It's, uh, some emerging research that might state, Hey, hot, hot might be better than cold, uh, or sauna just getting hot. In general, anything you could do to increase blood flow is ultimately what I think you should be doing. Um, so that's the science on this one.

You guys can go check it out, but that's it for the study. Joe, how's life

Joe: Great. So I think the last [00:20:00] time we went over updates, I, it was before I got my next, my

Jerred: I.

Joe: injection in my heel. So I have a heel spur and that started bothering me again. So I got another injection and you know, within a week my heels back to, I. Pretty, basically a hundred percent, at least the best I can, it can do.

So it's wheels up running. All my pacing and running has been, uh, way better since my zone two pacing's way faster. Again, I've been running some fairly more intense intervals, a lot of four hundreds and eight hundreds, and that pacing has been good and, and uh, consistent when I go throughout my workout.

So yeah, that's been, good. That's basically it. Yeah, and weather is fantastic here, so. Yeah, train's great. I haven't really been sore that bad at all. Um, still sticking

Jerred: You doing hard to kill?

Joe: Yep, yep. And

Jerred: Yeah.

Joe: because so, because I'm specifically training for my mile and a halftime for my, uh, or run for my, the Air Force, I, I might [00:21:00] switch out one of the aerobic. Um, mixed metal aerobic days for like my 400 or my eight hundreds. 'cause I need to actually get some like, fast running in and then my normal fifth day's, a zone two day. but I did do, man, one of the, was it strength endurance day? It was with deadlifts, push press, and, um.

Jerred: That was the high volume day. Yeah,

Joe: Yeah. That was awful.

Jerred: yeah,

Joe: like,

Jerred: yeah.

Joe: body was just like,

Jerred: I think we all felt that one.

Joe: like this in a

Jerred: I.

Joe: It's like, do this for 18 minutes. I haven't done like, you don't, normally, it's like, we'll go hard for a little bit, but then there's that rest. But it's like, no, you're doing this for 18 minutes and then you're doing it again. And though I, even though I'm the one that inputs the programming and I looked at it before, I did it wrong. I did, I doubled the deadlifts. And so I looked at it after the first one and I'm like, holy crap. Maybe that's also why. It was so terrible because I doubled the deadlifts and yeah, that, that definitely, it kicked everyone's butt.

But I think that was a good, you know, uh, classic meet yourself Tuesday [00:22:00] moment or whatever.

Jerred: That was, that one got me. I was like, who programmed this? Because like, uh, it was, it was a lot, something that we hadn't done in a while, but I, you know, going back I kind of did that intentionally to like hit some volume and like, um, get things going. But yeah, I was, I was pretty sore after that one. Um, training wise for me.

Yeah, I've been on the hard to kill track. Um. And what's, what I've actually been paying attention to this time, and this is like our unofficial sponsor, right? Garmin, um, is do, do you ever look at it where it says like, if you're maintaining fitness, de training, recovery or productive, like, does your, yours does all that like.

Joe: uh, I'll look at 'em. Yeah.

Jerred: I, I've been paying attention to that a lot lately 'cause it has like this load ratio and all these things and I've been paying attention to it since I got on the hard to kill track again. And for the most part, I've been in the productive category other than like dropping back to maintaining like [00:23:00] a day or two after arrest day.

Um, and I've really been paying attention to that, trying to keep my load up high. Um, and that's just something I've been doing differently. But what's interesting is like since. Being officially on the hard to kill track and like being strict with just following the programming. My load ratios are also all in the optimal zone for how Garmin does it, is they basically have.

Um, they have kind of three zones that they're tracking like a high threshold, and then they have like a, kind of like a sprint interval threshold, and then they have like the zone two threshold or zone two area, and they have like all these based off of your own training. They, they tell you whether or not you're being productive or, hey, you're not, you don't do enough zone four stuff or you don't do enough zone two stuff.

If you have a Garmin, you'll know what I'm talking about. You can go look at it, but it's funny, it's like two, three weeks on hard to kill and all of that. Balance itself out right away. It's like I'm in the ideal category for like how much sprint interval [00:24:00] training I should be doing. How much kind of like zone four threshold, and then same with zone two.

It's like all in the optimal zone, which it hadn't been previously. I had like too much zone two low intensity stuff and not in enough high intensity stuff. So it's cool to see all of that shake out. But I should know, I've also been doing most of the meet yourself Saturdays, so that's why my. Zone four threshold stuff is pretty high, and I've really been enjoying it, man.

The, there was that session that kicked my butt and one unprogrammed session that absolutely kicked my butt. And I think it's hilarious, um, how these things, just like, if you're not doing 'em constantly, you, they can kick, kick your butt. And I, uh, had a. It was like a, a weekend or whatever. I wanted to do one additional training day.

I'd, I'd done all the hard to kill training sessions and I was like, oh, let's go to the Garmin suggested run. What do you got for me today, Garmin? And they were like, how about six four hundreds? And I was like, doesn't sound too bad. Like, let's, let's try it out. And so, um, it was like a 10 minute warmup [00:25:00] and then six four hundreds.

And I, I got like, uh, progressively harder. I did like negative splits. I was like. I was trying to find out like how fast I wanted to go on these 400. So I was getting faster every time with my final six to one being my fastest time. And then, uh, it was ended with like another 10 minute, uh, cool down run Dude, I was sore for like eight days after that.

Like in all the, not like necessarily like muscular sore. It wasn't like, oh, my quads, my hamstrings. It's like my feet and like my ankles and my, my Achilles. Like all of those kind of things were sore because I had not sprinted. On concrete in such a long time. Like it was just, this was just a road run. So like when it told me to rest, I would rest and then run, run.

All the sprinting I've been doing has been on my true form, like my treadmill. So typically if we do any speed work, I'm doing it there, but it's got those big cushion pads, right? It's like optimal, like running form, all that kind of stuff. I never really feel it too much on those, but sprinting on the road.

[00:26:00] That, that took me down a notch. Definitely humbled me. I gotta, I gotta get off the treadmill a little bit is what I, my, my takeaway. I need to make sure I'm, I'm doing some running on the, on the road. Um, periodically kicked my butt.

Joe: my ZO two is always on the road. There's actually a, a boardwalk

Jerred: I.

Joe: but my, uh, 408 hundreds I've been going to the track and that's been, that's been really good. Mine got my, my one, achilles, my actually right the opposite side got sore. I. last time, um, uh, uh, last, last two times I went to the track.

I actually had to dodge some either Marines one time and I think Air Force, maybe some quarter sort unit that was coming through. They were doing like vested all workouts all around the track. but those have been, uh, those have been fun. Oh my, um, garment is also like in the green productive. I, I normally, I haven't looked at it for so long 'cause usually it yells at me for just not being in shape. Uh, but not, but it's, it's pretty happy with me and, and I even, I even got an additional, uh, VO two max point. Recently, so that was, that's encouraging. Yay.

Jerred: Well, and that's my point, man, is like, it's like [00:27:00] I'm sitting here when I program trying to balance all these areas and then it's nice to have, I. This additional objective measure that's saying, yeah, you are perfectly well balanced and productive in training. And I'm like, thank you. You know, that's what we're trying to do.

Like, and it's not even taking into account like. All the other stuff we do. It's really just looking at cardiovascularly. How are you doing across different like zones of training. We're also looking at like, okay, are there enough isometric contractions? Are there enough? Different planes of movement and like, so we're factoring in even more than what the garment is telling us, Hey, you are optimized correctly and like things are good, but it's also like we're taking in more into account so that it's just good to have that like additional objective measure that says that we're doing well as.

Which is, which is awesome.

Joe: And could be a complete nce coincidence with the, the VO two max up and being productive. But my, after my track day workout, so normally I, I'll do at least laps afterwards. It's like I'll go [00:28:00] to the, I'll go to the very far, far lane and I'll just, I'll do like a zone two cool down. But the last of workouts, what I've been doing is I've been doing backwards running on the straightaways.

Jerred: Mm.

Joe: turning around on the curves and going forward, just zone two. And then on the straightaways, turning around, going backwards. 'cause we had that study last year about all the benefits of backwards running. And uh, so I was like, I'm just gonna kind of try and incorporate it, you know, somehow, and I'm gonna do it in with my cool downs.

And I've, I've actually really liked it.

Jerred: That's awesome. I, I remember I did some of that way back in the day. I think we've talked about it several times how like. Some elite runner told me like, Hey, you wanna get rid of shin splints, run backwards. And I did, um, an, an and barefoot, like was his two recommendations and I've never had shin shin splints since, which is just seems odd.

Things like that in the body don't normally work. It's not like, do this one time for, for six weeks and you'll never have a problem again. So I don't know if that's the actual reason, but, uh, it is, it, it can be beneficial for sure.

Joe: Definitely felt the, the difference in, in muscle activation when doing, going [00:29:00] backwards. Granted it's the end of the workout one day. I might do that as like a 30 minute thing, like straightaways backwards, turn around, out the turn. Uh, for a while I do recommend it on the track because at least you have the guidelines like the entire time. And even so, I'm turning around and make sure I'm not running into anybody. Usually I'm by myself, but yeah.

Jerred: Running backwards is not easy. Yeah, I've done it on the treadmill and stuff. It's just hard to. Hard to do. It's hard to do at like, any, any like reasonable pace. Um, cool. Well I think that's it for this one. Uh, really cool stuff. Emerging research Joe. And I'll be coming back on the podcast a little bit more frequently with some studies.

I was actually like really excited to dive into this one 'cause we haven't done one in a while. Um, and I just like to keep up to date on the research and nerding out on this stuff. So you can expect more of that on the podcast if anyone is looking to have productive, uh, objectively, subjectively training.

Go to Garage Gym athlete, sign up for a free trial. We'd love to have you for all of our athletes in there putting in the work. I see you. I see you commenting. It's [00:30:00] awesome to have you in the new training app and everything. So good to have all of you. But that's it for this one. Remember, if you don't kill comfort, comfort will kill you.