Science Hacks to BOOST Your Athletic Performance

This episode breaks down three studies that give real, simple ways to improve endurance, power, and performance—without overthinking your training. Below is a clean summary you can use right away.

---

Strength Training Makes You a Better Runner

Dave covered a 2025 study on how heavy strength work changes running performance.
The subjects were well-trained male runners who logged plenty of weekly miles—but did zero strength training.

What They Did

• Two groups: endurance only vs. endurance + strength

• Strength group trained twice a week

• Movements included:

  • Back squat

  • Single-leg leg press

  • Plyometrics

  • Isometric calf work

• Loads hit 85–90% of 1RM

What Happened

• Running economy improved

• Time-to-exhaustion improved by 31%

• The endurance-only group actually got 13% worse

What This Means for You

If you run, don’t settle for “runner strength” like light lunges after a long jog.
Lift heavy.
Use real percentages.
Stay explosive.
Your stride and durability will thank you.

---

Nitrates Boost Isometric Endurance

Joe talked about a new 2025 study on dietary nitrates (think beets, spinach, arugula, celery).

The Study

• College bodybuilders tested their isometric strength and endurance

• Used ~750–800 mg of nitrates (about 2 medium beets or supplements)

• Took it 1 hour before the test

Key Result

• Isometric endurance improved by 25%

• Peak strength didn’t change—but the ability to hold positions did

How You Can Use This

If your training includes:

• Pull-up holds

• Push-up holds

• Planks

• Static positions (like in Strike Zero)
  nitrates may help you grind through longer sets.

A simple pre-workout beet supplement can do the job.

---

A Kettlebell Protocol That Boosts VO2 Max by 6%

Jerred brought a study on Division I female soccer players who improved VO2 max without running.

The Protocol

15 seconds on, 15 seconds off
Kettlebell snatch
20 minutes total
3 times per week

The kettlebell weight was about 18% of bodyweight or whatever allowed 7–9 good reps per work interval.

The Results

• VO2 max jumped 6% in 4 weeks

• No running was added

• Snatching demanded enough oxygen debt to trigger the improvement

Why This Works

VO2 max improves when you:

1. Do aerobic work

2. Create intense oxygen debt (hard intervals)

Full-body movements like snatches force the body to breathe hard fast.
They’re simple and brutally effective.

Try This in Your Garage Gym

Pick a kettlebell you can snatch smoothly.
Stick to 15 seconds on, 15 seconds off.
Don’t overthink it—just move.

---

Supplements We Actually Like

At the end of the episode, everyone shared the supplements that make training easier—not essential, but helpful.

Joe’s Picks

• Beet supplements

• Tart cherry juice
  Easy to use and great for endurance, recovery, and sleep.

Dave’s Picks

• Creatine
  Backed by a huge amount of research. Helps strength, power, and muscle retention.

Jerred’s Pick

• Electrolytes
  Simple, effective, and make hydration easier. Especially helpful in hot garages.

---

Final Takeaways for Garage Gym Athletes

• Lift heavy even if you run long. It improves stamina, stride quality, and durability.

• Nitrates help you hold tough positions longer.

• You can raise your VO2 max with kettlebells, not just running.

• Supplements won’t fix bad training, but the right ones can make good training feel better.

Kill comfort this week. Train hard. Stay consistent.
And if you want coaching, community, and programming that fits your garage gym life, grab a free trial at GarageGymAthlete.com.

---

Garage Gym Athlete Workout of the Week

Podcast Transcript

Jerred (00:01)
All right, welcome back to the Garage Gym Athlete podcast. This week, we're going to be diving into multiple different studies. Everyone, me, Joe and Dave, we brought a different study today. So I'm going to be talking about how to increase your VO2 max with a kettlebell. Very interesting study. Joe's going to be talking about nitrates and Dave has some information on strength and running. Very interested. We have not seen each other's studies ahead of time. We want to be just as surprised as you are, but we each brought a different scientific study that we think can help the Garage Gym Athlete.

But I do have a quick update on isometric. So if you listen to last week's episode, I said I was going to do a training session on isometric training or do isometric training training session and update everyone about it. And all I can tell you right now is that I am incredibly sore. My back is super sore. So I did not do a pure isometrics only session. So I didn't you know, we talked about that Dave and I in last week's podcast.

only doing isometrics, but I did a lot of isometrics, but I did it in the way that I mentioned on the podcast where I would kind of pre-exhaust the muscle. So like doing reps and then end with an isometric hold or something like that. So if you think about, you know, one of the exercises I did was I had two dumbbells and I would press overhead for like 10 to 15 reps and then I would hold it overhead for like 30 seconds. And the reason I did it this way is because, you know, Dave, more you and I talked about it,

The isometrics they performed in the study were incredibly brutal. It's like pressing against an object. It's pressing against an immovable object, right? And that's kind of different than like holding the bottom of a push-up position. But it's not, in my opinion, if you're incredibly fatigued. It's about the same if your muscles are closer to failure. And for me, it's always about, it's not exactly how you do something. It's the stimulus. It's the idea, the concept behind it. So for me, in my opinion,

and this is just my take on it was if I could pre-fatigue the muscle as much as possible then hold that position it's going to feel like I'm working against an immovable object right because I didn't want to do locked pins at the bottom and try and deadlift you know my rack and end up flipping it over or something like that and to be honest I was thinking more about this I was like couldn't you just load barbells with weights you can't lift?

and try to lift it for like 30 seconds and call it really good isometric training, right? Like it's like, let's load the barbell with 700 pounds. I can't deadlift it. I'll pull it off, try and pull it off the ground for 30 seconds and call it a training session. I guess you could, but I don't know if that's solid. That's like a maximum effort. So I feel like there has to be an in-between here. So anyway, I did a bunch of stuff with pressing overhead, like I mentioned.

With the dumbbells I did planks. I did pull-ups like we talked about I did push-ups like we talked about so I do a bunch of pull-ups And then I would hold basically the top of the pull-up position or about midway I didn't go full chin over barks. I wanted a little bit longer You know muscle length there according to last week's study. I did the push-up So anyway, what ended up sore the most on me was my back for some reason I don't know if it's the pull-ups, but anyway seems like a again we mentioned this last week I don't know if being sore is the most

Effective measure of how a workout program is but as someone who trains regularly and I don't get all that sore Being pretty sore right now as a recording this because of that training session. I don't know. It's it was brutal It was hard. I didn't want to do it. It was annoying which means it's all probably really good training in my opinion so there's the update on on isometrics for for the garage gym athlete if you want to want to add it's pretty easy to add to any training session just It's like a burnout method, you know

Dave (03:37)
Was the isometrics the only thing you did differently? Like did you do different movements to pre-fatigue? Because did that cause this soreness or was it like the isometrics, these were movements you were doing before and you just added the iso?

Jerred (03:45)
Yeah, they're all because

I've been doing a ton of you know, we've been talking about strike zero everything else I've been doing a ton of ⁓ push-ups and pull-ups and all that kind of stuff. So nothing was really new The only thing that was new is I haven't been doing a ton of like dumbbell pressing overhead But my shoulders aren't really sore from that So yeah the like I haven't been getting sore from doing tons of pull-ups and so I did the same amount of pull-ups And because my pull-ups in the strike zero program are going to failure anyway So now it's going to failure and then trying to hold it for whatever 15 to 20 extra seconds

is really brutal. That's like really hard to do when you're already like at the end of your rope. So it makes for some really hard training sessions and we kind of talked about it last week like the central nervous system stimulation here like it's pretty high. Like I think realistically one of those per week that's not something I want to do and one a week might even be a lot. Like that's not something I want to do every a couple times a week. That's it's it's really brutal.

Dave (04:36)
Yeah, when you mentioned last week, think you said two times a week or something. There's no way.

Jerred (04:39)
Yeah, I like, we just do this three times a week. Like, no,

that's not happening. Okay. Well, let's get into the studies. Dave, let's, let's kick it off with you, man. Strength and running. I don't know what study you picked or anything about it, but, I love the title and think it could help garage gym athletes just from hearing that, you know, just knowing that much. So anyway, I'm very interested to jump into this one. So why don't you break it down for us?

Dave (04:59)
Yeah. So study I picked a title of it is called strength training improves running economy, durability, and fatigued high intensity performance in well-trained male runners, a randomized control trial by Zanini et al. It's a 2025 study. so they took 38 well-trained men and, ⁓ these are people that were only doing endurance stuff. their average running distance was, ⁓ I think it was 20, like over 20 kilometers per week.

uh... they had a VO2 max of fifty eight so these are well well-conditioned people uh... they'd run a 10k under five minutes within the last six months they ran for ninety minutes continuously continuously at least three times in the past three months so people I didn't say if they were training for specific races but people who have a heavy endurance endurance background and these people that uh... they weren't following uh... strength training programs but it was cool because they when I look back at some of other studies that

you know, were cited and compared. A lot of the other ones were how strength affected running when people were fresh. And this one took them to, you pretty high level of fatigue. So they tested running economy. They tested, they did a 90 minute run at 80 % of VO2. So that was their like initial thing. And then they did a time to exhaustion.

how far can you go on a treadmill at 95 % of your VO2 immediately following the 90 minute run. So they did this 90 minute run. Yeah, sounds extremely fun. why I'm surprised they got 38 guys for it. So like a very high fatiguing thing. then they, so that was their initial test. They put them into two groups. One just said, hey, keep following your endurance training program. And the second one they did apply metric in lower body strength training program. the program I thought,

Jerred (06:20)
That sounds fun.

Dave (06:42)
was solid considering the amount of miles they were doing. did stuff like a lot of plyometric stuff that we work into our programming, pogo jumps, drop jumps, hop and stick, stiff leg bounds, bounds for length. some things that I think is left out of lot of running programs where people think like, I'm running. That's kind of my plyometric explosive work. And then they also had them do really just a three exercise strength training program that they did. They did the same program.

twice a week. did back squat, unilateral leg press, and then isometric calf raise. But what I liked about it was they did in the back squat and leg press, it was progressive overload over the course of three weeks. Then they would retest one rep max and recalculate all that. But they had them building up to 85 to 90 % of one RM for three to four sets of four to five reps. So not just like.

you know, lot of these running programs we see, it's, you know, they're doing like, do some walking lunges or some step ups or something. They were loading a barbell heavy for them. the, so for the results of it, the endurance training didn't see any change in their pre-testing, which isn't a huge surprise. The strength and power increased in the resistance training group, which is pretty obvious. But the cool thing was the...

Running economy they tested, time exhaustion and run distance all improved significantly in the run training group compared to the ones that did endurance training only. And I thought it was really interesting the time to exhaustion improved 31 % in the resistance training group and actually got 13 % worse in the endurance only. So the strength training made them maybe more mentally resilient too to be ready for that. But had a significant change there which

Jerred (08:13)
Yeah.

Dave (08:19)
The cool thing is not that a lot of our athletes are necessarily training for half marathon type distance, marathon type distance, but some people are interested in pushing a longer event, a Spartan event, or you want to do a race. It just really stresses the importance of lifting heavy during this and how much that affects. They weren't totally sure of what led to the changes. They noted that blood lactate levels were higher. Maybe they responded better to the higher blood lactate levels.

The running stride probably playing a big role in that that's something that I saw firsthand doing the hundred mile there was how many people's body People's body was just breaking down from not being able to handle that kind of mileage where even me without a running big running background I believe handled the stress is a lot better probably with which is strength training background, but Just a cool thing to remind people of the importance of lifting heavy like that was the coolest thing with the study that I thought was That they weren't you they weren't doing

⁓ like really like some x work like a lot of people do it's like only single-leg work and do high repetitions which is common i think sometimes in the running running training space but actually loading the barbell up heavy and ⁓ you know progressively overloading like a like a good program should follow so even if even if people are training for a longer event making sure that not neglecting the the heavy strength work but yes that's a

That's kind of the overview of that. I'm curious for you guys. I know that the strength results probably aren't too surprising. Obviously, they got stronger, the ones that did the strength training group. But are you guys surprised at that distance and intensity, that those results were as good on the endurance side of things?

Jerred (09:54)
I think the, what was it, 31 % time to exhaustion? I think that you got a good point there with mental resilience or mental toughness there. But I think what I find really cool about the study is what you mentioned is going up to 85 % of the wonder at max, going really heavy. Because most of the running strength training I see is what you're talking about. It's like, I'm going do some lunges after I run 14 miles. And it's like, yeah, OK, let's get some real strength training in there. And how I've had to explain this to

runners in the past when I'm trying to convince them of running is like a good runner or like a person with a good running program. They understand that they need to hit all these different modalities and these different intensities, right? They're like, I've got a threshold day and I've got a low intensity zone today and interval day, all these things. And it's like, you have to do the same with strength training. And once you can kind of wrap their head around and contextualize it for them, be like, okay, well, your threshold day in running is your 85 % max lifting or greater.

and strength training, you need to be doing that. And yeah, you still need to be doing probably some five sets of 10, like low max stuff or, know, sub max stuff, mean. And, you know, once they can contextualize that, they start to understand strength training and how it can improve running. But I'm always impressed by how much it helps. And sometimes I'm wondering if it's due to the lack of strength to begin with, you know, how there's like that.

honeymoon phase when you're doing anything new in training. So that's something I find pretty interesting on that one as well. That's quite a big increase for people who are already fairly well trained.

Joe (11:30)
That test that they did sounds like the conditioning or endurance version of your ISO strength to where they're basically fatiguing themselves and then dying at the end.

Jerred (11:37)
Yeah,

do something hard, now do more hard.

Joe (11:43)
Yeah. So

Jared, on your next test, go for a zone to run and then just like max five minutes sprint at the end of your run. Yeah. I like the, the, sort of bookended on like the strength continuum that Jared, you've gone over, the categories of it. basically went full on speed to super heavy strength, which is really interesting. And I think makes total sense because when they, if they're on, on endurance,

Jerred (11:50)
I've done stuff like that before, it's... it'll wake you up.

Dave (11:54)
Keeps you going,

Joe (12:10)
Then they're running there. That repetition is their strength, endurance, muscle endurance for when they're actually doing their running or conditioning, but they're not going at max max effort speed dynamically in speed, or they're not doing super, super heavy max effort loads and then resting. So I think it makes total sense and, would definitely be great advice for all the endurance people out there to stay balanced and easy to incorporate versus just.

You know, if you're running three times a week, maybe don't do more endurance with your muscles, maybe hit the opposite ends of the spectrum so that you're more balanced. I always like seeing the running economy go up. That's always nice. Cause that's, that's like, we've done a lot of studies where you get bang for your buck in that. ⁓ like when they did like, was it one minute, one minute full out sprints raise running economy, stuff like that. So that's always great because it's bang for your buck for your training, especially adding in, you know, a

Abounding plyometric day or just like, Hey, if you want to have some fun, just go lift really heavy one day just to change it up safely, but heavy. so I think that's really cool and, easy to apply for any sort of, and especially endurance athletes.

Dave (13:18)
When people that are training for a specific race, their fear is always like, oh, I'm going to be sore. It's going to take away from my run and that, or I'm going to add mass. And really the way that people train, if they're in that higher volume range, the danger of adding mass is more if you're doing that higher volume stuff versus like if you're doing three sets of three on a squat at 90 % of your one rep max, if you can handle the load safely. And like I said, if you're least proficient in the squat, you're not going to risk adding any kind of.

You're probably not going to add any mass if you're running that kind of mileage. You're going to add strength. It's going to significantly help. And as long as it doesn't take away from your runs, which comes down to just programming it smartly within the course of the week, it's all very doable to do with a very low cost. Because that's the concern for people. It's like, well, I'm going to get sore. It's going to take away from my runs. Or I'm going to add too much weight. And most of those things are not actually true.

Jerred (13:48)
Right.

Yeah, I get frustrated with anyone who thinks that they're gonna magically gain mass because my frustration comes from a hard gainer in high school who had to eat thousands and thousands of calories to gain like one pound of muscle. I don't know, not everybody's that way, but I'm like, look, it's not gonna happen on accident. And I talked to females about that more than I am runners. They're like, I don't wanna get bulky, whatever. It's like, it's not gonna happen. You don't need to worry about that.

Thanks for bringing to the table. think great takeaways for garage to math fleet. Joe, let's hear a little bit more about nitrates. I'm fairly familiar. We've covered these a number of times. What have you found that can help the athletes?

Joe (14:46)
Yeah. So we've come back to nitrates and beats several times. I feel like most times it's been in the endurance realm or it's in, in, like when I, when I think of the past ones that we don't think of it in like a cardio aspect, longer, longer endurance stuff. But this one is, was done in 2025 and the name of the study is effects of dietary nitrate supplementation on isometric performance and physiological responses in college bodybuilders, randomized double blind.

crossover study and what piqued my interest was that it was specifically on isometric Strength endurance or isometric endurance. So hey Jared, here you go. This is a way to help your your ISO ISO stuff. Yeah and so they had 16 male bodybuilders and they measured heart rate rpe blood lactate electromyography and They did the

Jerred (15:25)
was perfect.

Joe (15:43)
maximal voluntary isometric contraction test for like max peak ISO strength and then they did three rounds of an ISO Three rounds of ISO circuit and endurance test for testing their ⁓ isometric endurance and then now these were Bodybuilders like actual show ones the ones that like hold their poses and that was sort of the basis of it the the the bodybuilders that are up on stage and posing holding that flex position

And they kind of wanted to, wanted to find a way for them to hold their see if nitrates would help hold their positions longer. But to me, it's, still an ISO hold and we do ISO hold. if you can, if you can improve your ISO, then, then that that's all that matters. And so they found that with the study, um, the peak peak torque and peak strength for muscle endurance did not go up, but the actual must, the endurance to hold went up by 25 % in the.

Testing group so you can hold holding the either either poses their ISO on the three round tests on the third one They held it 25 % longer on they tested four different ones elbow flexor forearm muscles knee extensors and something with the core So nitrates beats That's what you get from beats will help ISO holding ISO poses or ISO lifts 25 % more and the dosage was

Not too much. They, they did do blood lactate tested. I didn't see what they were testing it for that. think maybe, ⁓ they were just looking, obviously I'm actually, not sure. I couldn't find what they actually tested or what reason they took it from. just said that they tested it what they used to test it with. but the dosage was they recommended 750 to 800 milligrams of nitrate for, what, for this. And I actually have some pre-workout like beat supplement and mine was like a thousand milligrams.

so like a lot of the supplements will have and it's it's about two medium-sized beats like whole beats if you were to eat them and There's let's see. also have chat tbt of what what it all has Spinach is about almost a full salad. Oh same with arugula celery. didn't really sit knows no celery had nitrate It's a lot of celery, but all these things have it the beats It says let's see 200 to

Jerred (17:57)
How much spinach do need to eat?

Joe (18:02)
220 to 300 grams of raw spinach, so full salad bowl. It's about 800 milligrams of nitrate.

Jerred (18:08)
You know,

we've covered nitrates in a million different ways and I'm always like, it's like the one thing that I don't need any further proof to consume nitrates or beets, but I just never do it. I'm never, I'm never, well, I don't consume more beets, should I say, but I have a shake almost every day where I put a crap ton of spinach in it. So maybe I'm already getting a lot of the benefits, but I'm going to measure it out because I don't think I'm 200 grams of spinach in my shake. That seems like that'd be a bit overwhelming of a shake, but good to know.

Joe (18:35)
Yeah.

Jerred (18:37)
Good to know. ⁓

Joe (18:38)
Yeah, arugula celery

as well. I know people with celery in there their shakes and stuff, just cause it's actual moisture instead of just a leafy greens.

Jerred (18:46)
Yeah.

Dave (18:46)
I love

me some beats. Is it like a cumulative thing over the course of the day or week, or is it like timed around? I'm not as familiar with this study as you guys.

Joe (18:53)
I think they did it

one hour before they took it one hour before. And when I've done it in the past, it's been almost like a pre-workout.

Dave (19:00)
So I beats, but not eating an hour before my workout.

Joe (19:02)
I used to do that. So this was like 12 or 13 years ago, Jerry, when you first wrote any, uh, an article about beats.

Jerred (19:09)
Dude, I wrote an article on beats so

long ago. Yeah. I even think I had kids yet.

Joe (19:11)
Yeah. And like just me being new and just wanting to try it out. I'm like, I'm going to go to the and just get this can of beats and just eat it straight out of the can. And I did, and it was fine, but then not thinking of it the next time I went to the store, they didn't have them. So I got like pickled beats. Don't do pickled beats. Cause then they just use like burping up and it's just like gassy in your stomach.

Jerred (19:32)
No, yeah. I'm going to see, maybe I'll update the listeners again on how much spinach I'm consuming in my shake and then you can decide if that's the direction you want to go. Well, I think that's awesome. So we got, add more legitimate strength training to your running, not just BS strength training and you'll see more results. And nitrates, already know help so much across every spectrum, endurance for sure. And now even when it comes to...

Joe (19:38)
You

Jerred (20:00)
Isometric holds and so that's awesome. I'm going a different direction I mean, I feel like we're kind of all these can all help each other, but I'm gonna try and sell my study to you guys a little bit more so Do either one of you want to increase your vo2 max by 6 %? without running No running involved increase your vo2 max by 6 % would you do it? Tell me more. Yeah

Joe (20:23)
Can I do like two, three?

Jerred (20:25)
to you only want to increase two percent well i think everybody knows the issue max is incredibly important and i think it gets a lot of uh... attention right now i think a lot of people paying attention to view to max and i try always simplify the issue max for people

because a lot of people do like to over complicate their protocols and so I always remind people and I've done episodes on this before that it's just two things that you need with the VO2 max. You need to do things that demand oxygen for a prolonged period of time and so that could be low intensity running, running any cardiovascular training, right? You need to have some sort of aerobic training practice.

And then you need to also do training that causes an oxygen debt. That's the second part. You can do those two things and oxygen debt is where your breathing can no longer keep up with the activity that you're doing. And the easiest way to think about that is interval training. Right. So if I'm going all out for 30 seconds or 60 seconds, I can't sustain that. And after I'm done, I'm going to be breathing really hard to catch up to the oxygen debt that I have created in my body. So

If you can just get those two things in your mind, be okay, I need to be running, I need to be doing something aerobically, this can be low intensity stuff, and I need to be causing oxygen debt one, two, three times a week, boom, you're increasing your VO2 max. But there are specific protocols out there, and the one that I looked at, this is a study done over 10 years ago. So this was in 2015, but I still love this study because I think that it was done really well.

And what they looked at, this is another reason I liked it, is it was female NCAA Division I college soccer players. And the reason I like it so much is because they are so well-trained. If you know anything about soccer, athletes at this level, endurance is not an issue, right? Like they can go for days. And so I really like that they're testing these high-level elite athletes. It doesn't matter to me, male or female in this case. And they are seeing an improvement from the protocol that I'm

I'm going go over here in a second. But I think that it's crazy that they increased their VO2 max by 6 % without running. So what's the protocol? Well, they did it with a kettlebell. OK? And so what they did in this study was they did four weeks of training. And they had two groups. They had the circuit weight training group. And I thought it was really interesting because I was like, how did they program this circuit weight training? And I pulled it up. So they did.

five exercises that had to be completed in two minutes with a two minute rest period. And so they did 20 squats, 20 sit ups, 10 windmills with a kettlebell, and then 10 jump squats, and then they sprinted all out 400 meters. So they did that. They would do all of that within two minutes.

And from me, programming standpoint, the windmills was a horrible decision to throw into that. Just from like, don't, if you're trying to train VO2 max, you don't just go ahead and throw in a skilled movement that slows you down a lot. So I think that that screwed up the entire study between the two groups. In my opinion, that one exercise screwed everything up for them because that group,

did two minutes on two minutes off 10 minutes of total work so 20 minute workout but only half of it is actual work right the other half is rest and they saw no increase in their VO2 max which I think is surprising this is basically a CrossFit workout right this is a CrossFit workout minus the windmill and they saw no improvement in their VO2 max the other group did something in my opinion slightly more brutal they did 15 seconds on 15 seconds off of kettlebell snatch for 20 minutes so that is the protocol 15 seconds

15 seconds off, kettlebell snatch, 20 minutes, 10 minutes worth of work. And what they had to do, the weight selection, because I was really interested in that, they had a bunch of different ways of like, form was very important in this study, which I appreciate, because the kettlebell snatches can be dangerous, can hurt your shoulder, all this stuff, you don't know what you're doing. But they selected around 18 % of their body weight, which was the average. So for me, that's going to be around like a 35 pound kettlebell.

And they said or a weight that they could do seven to nine reps in that time frame. So those there are two ways for you to look at that because the 18 percent of your body weight might make sense. But if your body weight is really low and you're really well trained, it might not make sense if you have really high body weight might not make sense. So anyway, if you can do seven to nine reps in 12 seconds, which is which is moving or I say 12 seconds. Yeah.

in 15 seconds, seven to nine reps in 15 seconds, that's the weight that you're gonna be selecting. And we kind of do this in our 10, not 11 strength test with the kettlebells, like we set how many reps you can do, and then you go from there. But anyway, that's pretty much the gist of the study, but they increased, these really well-trained athletes increased their VO2 max by 6%, and all they did was add this to their regular training. So they had all of their normal soccer training, all their regular.

Games everything was the same between both groups. Everyone was still in the strength and conditioning program for the school They just added this 20 minute session three times per week And that's what I thought was really cool about it because i'm always looking for ways to increase vo2 max without just having to go run Sprint intervals on a track right or whatever and so I think this one is pretty good and at first I was like I don't want to do snatches like that, but a 35 pound snatch To be honest, I don't think is that crazy And if you go back to my overarching principles

of like, okay, here's how you increase VO2 max, something that demands oxygen and also on a different day, something that puts you in an oxygen debt. The more you're moving total distance of anything. So whether that is a clean and jerk or a snatch that is going to demand more, whether you're doing a thruster, a burpee broad jump, these are all things that include the entire body and are going to create oxygen debt really fast because

If I want to try and create oxygen debt by doing calf raises, probably never gonna happen, right? Like it's just not gonna happen because there's not, I can't do enough calf raises fast enough for my body to not be able to keep up with that oxygen demand. But when I start moving my entire body with like a burpee or yeah, like a broad jump or kettlebell snatch, clean and jerk, anything like that, I'm starting to do reps of them. My body can no longer keep up with the demand of oxygen. And so that's another thing I want to throw in there if you're thinking about adding this protocol to your training.

If the kettlebell is too light and you're not breathing hard, there is no magic to 15 seconds on 15 seconds off. The magic is in creating the oxygen debt. this one, again, like the isometric class week, I'm going to do this workout this week. I'm going to add it to one of my training sessions. And I don't think it's going to be fun. I think it's going be pretty crappy. And you've got to do it three times a week. This isn't like the isometrics or maybe I could do it once. I got to be doing it three times a week. So that is my study.

You both agreed to doing it already basically when I asked, so you guys have to do this week too.

Joe (27:07)
So

would you say then you kind of hit on it for the full body movement? So would you say you would need to it's best to do it like a full body powerful movement or could you do this on like an air dyne or something? What would you think about that?

Jerred (27:21)
Yeah, see, think an air dyno would be great because we know that running you can increase your VO2 max from running. But yeah, there's going to be a higher oxygen demand and debt if you're doing rowing or air dyno because you're moving both arms and legs. So I think that you get an even bigger bang for your buck. And this kind of helps in the case of like being able to increase your VO2 max without having to do

those single modality things. I mean, this is a single modality, but with a kettlebell, I would probably rather do my VO2 max with a kettle, VO2 max training with a kettlebell than running, you know, any, any day of the week. And then you also have, like you can do this with jump rope, you know, like if, and I, I messed around a lot with heavy jump ropes. I have plenty of those. think I forgot what the big thick one is. I think it's a two pound jump rope. Like those will cause an oxygen debt really fast.

So I'm not just talking about the CrossFit speed rope, like high bearing, like easy jumping. I'm talking about things that are going to really tax you. And jump rope is another great one I think could significantly increase your VO2 max without having to like go running. But I also think jump rope would probably translate the best to running just with the bounding nature of jumping and then, you know, how demanding it is on the body from ⁓ a oxygen demand standpoint.

Dave (28:43)
I think it's really cool. I generally enjoy, I wouldn't say I do enjoy running and I do enjoy intervals and joys used lightly of like they're hard but I think that's something that just seems most effective for me but I'd be curious more trying some of these other things because running is also high cost in terms of my overall training week like an interval session will beat me up in a different way from a nervous system standpoint, a hammy standpoint, from a little bit like if I'm trying to do other

lifts the next day. It's a high cost movement. playing around with, I mean a snatch or even like think kettlebells, like a heavy kettlebell swing. I know I've done in the past when I was training for like strong first kettlebell certification, ton of swings and snatches and those things too. And the recovery of that seems a lot easier than something like running where I think there could be a lot of benefit for that.

Jerred (29:28)
Yeah, you can do a ton of kettlebell stuff for some reason. It's not as taxing as something more like barbell or dumbbell stuff. I mean, having done kettlebell snatches, like we've had, have the kettlebell snatch test in our one man, one kettlebell program. It's the kettlebell snatches is nasty, you know, especially if you're doing them for time. So I'm do this. Anybody else can get convinced? Anybody else to do it this week? Dave, you want to give it a shot? Just maybe one time.

Dave (29:54)
I'll do a session. Yeah, I want I don't know if I do three of them, but I do

Jerred (29:55)
Yeah. I don't know

if I'm going do three either. But RPE, what do think it's going be? You think this is a 10?

Joe (30:05)
Yeah, at least a nine, it might be nine physically, 10 mentally, because that's 40 rounds, right? Oh, 15 on 15 off.

Dave (30:15)
Are you thinking 35 pounds? Is that how you said 35 pounds? Did I hear that right? Like, I'm trying to think of what weight would you?

Jerred (30:18)
18 % of my body weight

or I don't know for the same so I just did the rough math on 18 % of my body weight and it was it was in the 30s so and I have a 35 pound kettlebell because if you would have just been like pick your own weight for this I would have chosen 50 yeah so but who knows maybe I should but I'll also I think I would get

five minutes into that and I'd be like, yeah, I think I'm gonna hurt my back. So I think having those parameters was really helpful for me because also I don't know if I could actually use 50 pounds and hit seven to nine reps every single interval. You know what I mean? I think I would end up getting too tired by the end, but I don't actually know. I wanna try this one out.

Dave (30:59)
Would you try any other durations of it? is 15 on, 15 off, or is it 30 on, 30 off? Okay.

Jerred (31:04)
It was 15 on,

15 off. No, I like that because it's short. Like I do think, like I said, there's not lot of magic in the protocol. The magic is in the oxygen debt, right? And so I think a 30-30 would work. I think a 60-60 would work. 60-60 starts getting brutal, real brutal, real fast, especially with a snatch. Because we do the three-minute snatch test, and then, yeah, like I said, that's just terrible.

But yeah, think I want to try it because I want to actually increase my VO2 max and I don't want to have to do with running. I'm to try it once and then if I'm like, this is something I could add once or twice a week, I might do it just to tilt the VO2 max in a different direction.

Joe (31:45)
If anything, it's just an easy 20 minute workout or like simple 20 minute workout. you crunched on time.

Jerred (31:50)
I like things

you don't have to think about when it comes to hard. When it's hard, I don't want to think about like anything else. All right. That's about it. I do want to ask you guys, we'll cover this quickly. We want to end out today's podcast talking about supplements because we're starting a new supplement line. No, I'm kidding. I want to see what you guys.

Joe (32:10)
How many times have you joked about

that? ⁓

Jerred (32:11)
So many times, I'm trying to plant the seed in people's heads so when we launch our Create Team, everyone's just like, yeah, we've seen this coming. I think I said if I ever launch supplements, you need to check and see if I'm okay. So what is a supplement that you guys are using regularly that you're like, it's really making life easier, training easier?

You know, originally I phrased this as you can't live without, but we can all live without a supplement. You know what I mean? So like, what is your favorite supplement right now? You don't even have to get into brands, because that's not the point of this conversation. It's just trying to help athletes out there understand what we value. And we could probably live without a lot, but ultimately, what is something that, like I said, making your life easier in the supplement world you really enjoy and ⁓ utilize maybe on a daily basis, weekly basis, or whatever. Let's start with you, Joe. What do you got?

Joe (33:00)
Well, I picked my study kind of for a reason because of that, uh, beats for one, because of the application of it and how easy it is. like when applying things that are easy, simple enough to do to add in, uh, you know, like we've talked about with blood flow, you know, getting on the bike versus getting a cold plunge or whatever. beats I've been, like I mentioned 12 years ago, I started, I had a, I ate actual beats and then, you know, I've gotten, they now they have some supplementation that you can take.

I have some powder that I've used some for, for like a pre-workout in case I need a little extra kick or depending on what the workout is. and I'd say one, a one B would be in the same vein. Tart cherry juice has a lot of, yeah, easy application recovery, performance sleep, all that stuff. And I just keep a thing of tart cherry juice, usually in the fridge and I can just add it to a drink and apply. It's not going to be like, nothing's going to be earth shattering or, ⁓ or like, it's not going to.

Jerred (33:41)
Yeah, same idea, Yeah.

Joe (33:56)
Make the, all the difference in my training, but I think it does help here and there, especially in like an acute, ⁓ in a cute way, like that day or two. So that's why I like those because it's just easy to add, easy to implement and use, ⁓ beats. can usually tell the difference taking them. Maybe there's a little placebo to it, but science says it actually legitimately works in from performance standpoint. So those are two that I've been using for at least 10 years on and off, and I will probably continue to still use on and off because there's.

Still more literature that comes out for that. good.

Jerred (34:28)
That's awesome. Yeah, I think that's a great one. How about you Dave? What you got in the supplement arena?

Dave (34:33)
Yeah, something that's a tough question for me, because I'm definitely more of a minimalist with it. I creatine is probably the only thing I've taken consistently over the years. I don't, I mean, I guess when you say it makes life better, that'd be caffeine and coffee, just because I love it. That makes my life better in a lot of ways. But in terms of actual training stuff, I guess it'd be creatine just because of the amount of science behind it and everything, and being a strength athlete. Yeah.

Jerred (34:48)
Thank

And it's hard, like you can get creatine from meat, it can be difficult to

get the amounts you need, you know? Yeah.

Dave (35:02)
Yeah, and I but

but somebody also taken faith that I haven't been off of it long enough like it's it's not something I'm because the science is so Behind it. I've never gotten to the point where I'm like, I'm gonna take three months off this to see if my Lifts and my performance get worse also knowing that there's a loading phase on the back end of it and everything so I'm like I just continue to take it in faith knowing that I Trust that it works. But so that'd probably be it It's hard to say for sure with something like that. It's like I haven't tested it

Jerred (35:20)
Yeah.

Dave (35:29)
I don't want to test it for the low cost that it is. It's something that's so easily available to take and to consume regularly. that's probably the one. Protein's up there too, just because I think it makes, it's more the like enjoyable part of the diet that like I don't always want to be eating meat at every meal. like a protein powder that tastes good. Like I don't think there's any magic in protein powders by any means, but not having to eat meat at every meal if you don't want to, I think is a big thing of that. They taste good.

Jerred (35:32)
Yeah.

Dave (35:57)
Mixed well and smoothies and stuff like that, but yeah, so those are probably some of the ones that stand out But nothing that's like I don't notice any acute changes with any of those so it's hard to say Really confidently on that

Jerred (36:08)
Well, as someone who takes creatine and does go on and off of creatine, you will notice a difference. I don't notice a difference as much in performance, maybe because I'm not doing...

like a ton of max testing to where like that's where you'd really notice the extra percentage points or whatever. Same with strength, but I just noticed the size and like muscle feel, I guess is the best way. Like they feel slightly deflated when I'm off of creatine, which can mess with your mind a little bit, you know, if you're if you're used to something. And then it is annoying to because you know, when you start taking it again, it's like a couple of weeks for it to really kick in and for you to feel the

benefits and those effects and so yeah.

Joe (36:52)
Yeah. I, I always feel like to me, cause I've gone on and off in Korea team and I know it's so great, but I always feel like it's such a commitment. Like anytime I go on it, I always feel like I need to pick the right type of training to maximize what my creating is doing, but also like, okay, I know I have to take this every single day. I need to make sure I buy enough to last three or four months or however long it takes. So if I run out, I don't want to miss a couple of days. And there's always times where I'll forget one or two days or it'll be lunchtime. I'm like, shoot, did I have today? I can't remember if I had it today.

And it can, yeah, right. It's just, it doesn't hurt. Yeah. and like doing the powder, I would, it's normally easy on training days. Cause like, okay, I'll make my protein shake. I'll put the creating powder in it. But if we're traveling or on the weekend, I had to remember to bring, bring you a bucket of the powder or like now they have gummies and shoes, which is great. So we can travel with.

Jerred (37:23)
It's OK to have it again. It's pretty safe.

Dude, gummy, I was about to say,

man, have you not seen the 40 million gummy companies that have popped up over the last 12 months? Like, everybody's doing it.

Joe (37:49)
Yeah, we,

tried a few, some of them aren't that great. Some of them you need to take, need to eat like six of them. The chews were decent because it was like two chews and I'm like, okay, I'll just, I'll just chew down. I'll just take down these chews. but yeah, I just always feel like it's such a commitment though. It has been good when I've done it. ⁓ I think it takes me longer to a bit. Deflate. I know I, I get a little bit bigger and sometimes that's on the, on the good and bad side. but yeah, I know creatine is awesome. It's just, I always feel like I need to mentally prepare myself when I'm going to.

Jerred (37:59)
Yeah.

Joe (38:16)
be going through creating.

Jerred (38:18)
Yeah, coming off of it. Yeah, it's funny. I don't like coming off of it, but I do that a couple times a year. Okay, so we'll round it out with me. Electrolytes have been, and I was thinking about this recently because...

What was it? It was a couple months ago. was like, you know what? All these electrolyte companies are ripping me off. I'm just going to buy some salt and some lemon juice and like do this on my own. And I did for like two weeks and then eventually I just like was like would get out of the habit of making it or like wouldn't do it. And I'm like, but I do feel better when I'm.

really well hydrated and all electrolytes and everything else. feel like that's the one that's actually making life quite a bit easier. Whether or not they're ripping me off with the cost of putting salt in a bag with a little bit of flavor. Yeah, that's out there. But I think that it does help a ton and makes life a whole lot easier. And I'm agnostic to brand. We've tried a lot of different ones over the years. And I'll even switch it up. But yeah, they're electrolytes for me. That's huge.

Dave (39:21)
Do you drink more water when you drink electrolytes or is it like equated? Like the same amount of water but electrolytes make a difference.

Jerred (39:28)
Equated yes, I drink the same amount of water because actually track either actually track or Back of my head track how much water I'm drinking in a day because typically I have like a water bottle and always kind of mentally It's the same water bottle right so I'm like trying to shoot for Whatever four of these water bottles in a day, and I'll know I think I just Probably pee a little bit less when I have electrolytes first thing versus not having them

And then part of me wonders if it's like a dependency now too, because like now I'll have a day with no electrolytes. And I kind of do this intentionally when it gets colder outside. I'm like, you don't need, like if I'm not getting in the sauna, you're doing a strength training session in a cold garage gym. Like we don't need electrolytes today. Like, you know what I mean? And so I'll skip days and then I'll be like, yeah, I felt kind of off yesterday. You know, it's like, well, I don't know. Well, you didn't take electrolytes.

You know, as a daily supplement for like 20 years and now that you do, you think that it's a thing. So part of me think there's some like placebo stuff going on there for sure. But I think I also think that I was with like in the summers in Texas, I think I was probably the opposite back in the day of like what I should have been like doing like really hard training in the garage gym, sweating my ass off, going into the sauna, standing outside at kids soccer games for a couple hours and then like only drinking water. It's not like it's the end of the world, but I can guarantee I could have been

hydrated if I was consuming electrolytes back then. Maybe with less water or just would have felt a little bit better, whatever, know, my theory at least.

Joe (40:57)
funny. like, didn't even think of electrolytes as a supplement and I take them every single day. Yeah. It's like, yeah, it's just like water. It's in the same category now because pretty much every day, like on training days, I wake up and that's, that's like my wake up drink to have with my coffee, especially because six months out of the year. So Spain here is pretty hot and the gym downstairs is, know, in the seventies with 70 something percent humidity at the very least. So it still gets pretty muggy and I'm just always drinking. And now just this past week, it's finally cool here.

Jerred (41:00)
Yeah, that's just life. Electric lights are life.

Joe (41:25)
And I have started to have the thought of like, all right, I'm actually not sweating that much when I'm training. Do I really need this? But I'm kind of used to just, this is just kind of my routine now. So I'm like, because I can actually scoop mine. I'm doing like a three quarter scoop now instead of like a full heaping scoop. But I think I just have that habit now, like you said, like it's possible slight mental side of it too. But I think I just need it first thing in the morning because I haven't drank anything in 12 hours.

Jerred (41:38)
Yeah.

Yeah. You drink electrolytes, Dave? Yeah.

Dave (41:53)
I do, yeah.

I'm on the fence of placebo or not. I think they make me drink more water too, though. That's the thing. There's some times where I'm like, don't really want another glass of water, but a sweet electrolyte drink sounds good. That's it.

Jerred (41:58)
Right, yeah.

well, I would

Joe (42:06)
Like a

Jerred (42:07)
say I drink the water bottle faster, that's for sure. Like if I have a sweet electrolyte beverage in there, the 26 ounce water bottle that I have will be gone in five minutes versus if you just give me water, it'll be spread more evenly throughout the day. That's why I don't do multiple electrolyte drinks in a day, because I would just load up. But anyway.

Joe (42:07)
pyramid scheme of ⁓ hydration or something.

Jerred (42:30)
That's it for this one. Hopefully the athletes got something out of this. A lot of different science covered in one singular podcast. You know, let us know what you think of this podcast. See if we should be covering more stick to one. I would love feedback from all the athletes in the community and for all of you in the community doing the training. We really appreciate you. Thank you so much for being a part, you know, and making the community what it is and getting in some consistent training. And if you want to be a part of that community, you can go to garage team athlete.com sign up for a free trial and we'd love to have you. But that's

That's

it for this one. Remember, if you don't kill comfort, comfort will kill you.